A Series of Unfortunate Recordings

[Creator]

I doubt that anybody here really wants to listen to a newbie's bellowing, but I need some advice on the overall recording process. My bandmates and I have tried a couple of recording options, but none have been positive experiences.

Our first attempt was in my room. We had one mic on the drums, one by the bass amp, and another by each guitar amp. I have a Fender PA system plugged into my computer and I just expected that each mic would be its own track. That didn't work out mostly because every time sound went through the first mic, it would quiet the other three. Even if every mic would've gone to its' own track, I'm sure that leaking would've been a huge problem anyways. On top of that, I don't think the drums would've sounded good with just one mic.

Our second attempt was at an actual "studio." The guy had us plug directly into the system, which made the guitars lose tone. On top of that, the drums didn't pick up too well on the track. Though I don't blame the guy for the sound, it's our own fault for trying to get four songs done in four hours. It didn't give him the proper time to mix everything.

The third attempt occurred a couple of hours ago. This time we once again attempted to all play at the same time, just like our first attempt. I told my bandmates the first time and this time that we should probably record one instrument at a time, but no one seems to take me seriously and our singer/guitarist complains that we don't have the time. He seems to rely on the fact that just because our material is energetic and widely-enjoyed by our fans, we can get them to buy whatever we produce. However, I strongly believe in getting quality recordings and giving the fans something they can actually enjoy without seeing us play live. Anywho, this time we were using a mixer and a Zoom MRS-8 digital multitrack. We had about three mics on the drums, one on the bass amp, and one per each guitar amp. All the mics were plugged into the mixer, and the mixer went straight into the MRS-8 onto one track. Our lead guitarist leveled everything out and we began to record. The result was an oddly panned, poor quality recording.

So now I don't know what to do. Perhaps my band just isn't fit to record. They want to get things done and don't realize how much time is needed to make a quality recordings. I guess that I'm just going to have to start from square one. I'm going to have to find a job and get some money to buy some equipment or something.

I don't know where to start though, so I need some help. The band has 6 dynamic mics, two wall mics, two mixers, Fender PA system, and the Zoom MRS-8 digital multitrack system. I'm probably going to need a condenser mic, new pair of headphones, some mixing program (freeware ones?), and whatever else... so any help with articles on home studio recording (where to place mics, how to get it done, how to achieve "broadcast" sound) and what equipment I'd need would be highly appreciated. I'm willing to take months and months of work on getting things set up right so that we don't fail again at recording.

Thanks and sorry about the super long post. Once again, any help at all is appreciated. =]

 

[smtcharlie]

Amen. Welcome to home recording. I have come to believe that home recording isn't about fidelity, it's about inspiration and performance. It may not sound as good as a dedicated studio with great rooms, but it might be a looser and more inspired performance. Especially if you know your gear and are really confortable with the set up.

I don't have any answers for you, but running out and spending a million dollars probably isn't your best choice. It just takes practice to get the feel of how things sound in your space and how to get the most out of your gear.

(Edit: this might be the exception to what I said above) I used to be in a band where we thought that lots of crappy mics would be a good idea (rather than a few good mic's). Having lots of crappy dynamic mics just muddies everything up, and they are hiss monsters.

Can you post a clip of any of these recordings that you are talking about?

And I'm sure that 5 people are going to post behind me and say, "there's a million threads here, read them." Which is good advice, do a search on your recorder, or your mic's, see if you can find threads where people post samples, listen to those versus your recordings, learn what you like and don't like in each of them.....

I wish you luck.

 

[Creator]

Thanks for the quick and considerate response, smtcharlie. ^_^

We begin our recording days pretty pumped up. We have the energy of playing at a live concert. However, that energy quickly diminishes when things begin to go wrong. You can listen to the recordings at the link in my profile. The first three songs were done at the studio and the last one was the home recording one from our first attempt. I have another recording from our most recent attempt, but myspace only allows four songs so I have no clue where to upload it.

I agree with you completely. It's not about the equipment - it's about one's ability to use the equipment. I guess that I meant to ask which equipment/software other members would recommend using for our style of music.

Because of the amount of topics, it's hard to find the right ones even with the search. I'll keep looking though.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Greg_L]

well you already have an assortment of mics and mixer, and you obviously have a computer, so you could get a tascam US-122 with cubase LE software for 149 at musicians friend.com. run the drum mics into the mixer, and record them as one track or two through the tascam. then you can lay a pile of guitars, effects, vocals, handclaps, tamborines, maracas, and whatever else you want on top of the drums. the tascam w/ cubase is cheap and simple and you can do some really good stuff with it if you take your time, prep and do things correctly, and learn your equipment/room.

 

[ConcreteHippo]

yea i think you should do something like greg suggested.

you dont need to spend all your money at once. Just start small and as you get better at recording and outgrow what you have then upgrade.

And also good mics make a HUGE difference. If you can pick youself up some condensors you would be really impressed with the difference.

 

[chessrock]

Honestly, Creator ... I don't like the idea of going the "do-it-yourself" route.

It sounds like you've been losing patience as it is, and if you think things are bad now, just wait until you get in to the whole nightmare of computer recording. You might be 35 by the time you actually get a decent recording done, and the band will be long broken up by then.

Your problem, so far, has basically been lack of recording competency. This studio you went to, or whatever it was, pretty much sucks donkey balls; and are only cranking out marginally better product than your homemade stuff. You guys are in Round Lake, which is about an hour drive away from the city. You should come out and record at my place and get something done that actually sounds good, and that you can have cranked out in a single weekend.

PM me or email me if you want to come out some time and get a real recording done. snailinajar@yahoo.com .

.

 

[Creator]

You're probably right - we have all of the necessary equipment, but we lack the operating skills. My original plan for the band was to record the bass and two guitars individually on the MRS-8 and then have the drums go through the mixer so we could level them out, and then have that run to the MRS-8 as one track (though that would mean we couldn't equalize the drums piece-by-piece afterwards).

I'll admit that in a way, I'm impatient, but I'm more than willing to save money to buy studio time. The main reason I've become so flustered with recording experiences is because I've finally gotten a taste of reality. I've come to realize that the most effective way of marketing a band is to take it step-by-step. Unfortunately, we've been taking a different (and far more disorganized) approach. In our area of Lake County, the venues typically accept bands that are metal, emo, or hardcore. Those genres are where the money is, and we don't fall into any of those categories, so we're denied at submission. Our other option would be to rent out places, but they cost money (usually $200-$600), and because we don't have any shows at venues, we don't make any money. Also meaning we can't buy studio time, unless we go into the studio for one song at a time as we eventually save up money.

But I've realized that this is what life is. Thousands of other bands in our area probably go through this same cycle, and the best of them learn that time is of the essence in this type of situation. I just wish that I could drill that into my bandmates' minds so then we can continue on our pursuit of musical comity.

Heh.

 

[Bill Furnett]

Creator,

There are a few ways to look at it, if you intend to release a CD, then no doubt save some cash, get the band tight as F and have it done in a pro facility with ppl that are trained to deliever the goods. On the other hand, if you are interested in recording then you should keep doing it because once sorted out it can actually be fun. Also, it doesn't hurt to record at home because there are things you pick up that go with you into that pro facility, things like keeping time to a click track, singing or playing with headphones, having your "sound dialed in." I have seen ppl that can sing like birds but can't deal with headphones at all, others that can't grasp the concept of not grabbing the mic because all they know is using a mic in a live situation. There are a few little things like this that you might never consider important until a cash clock is ticking.

If you can multi-track, then maybe read up on micing the drums and consider just inviting the drummer (Or the drummer and bass player) over to lay down their tracks, then pick a non practice time and get the guitar player there to do HIS thing, then the singer. The Idea is less distractions, less noise at once and three mics on the drums instead of one, but be realistic with yourself as to the quality of outcome you'll acheive with limited gear, untreated rooms and little experience. Learn to be happy with never being happy with it as home recording is pretty much an endless quest towards getting it better next time and next time and next time and next time.

 

[Creator]

At this point, we're interested in recording something that's listenable. We want to submit it to a few local radio stations and hopefully get some air-time. With our recording and mixing know-how, we probably won't get broadcast quality, but I'm sure that we can create something a step above our demo. We have most of the right equipment and a sound-proof room, but I guess we just need to experiment with different techniques and such.

I went digging through my basement and found four mics. I searched for forum topics related to them, and most people said that they were low-budget mics. Which mics would you suggest recording with?

AT DR-VX2
AT D-1000
Fender P-51
Audix OM2

I also read that the Audix OM2 was good for live vocals. Would it be sufficient enough for vocal recording too?

As for the drums, our drummer typically uses his bass, snare, floor tom, crash, ride, and crash/ride. Would it be best to place mics in the bass, by the snare, by the floor tom, and then use two wall mics for the cymbols? Also, what could we do so that each mic on the drums is its' own track? Our digital multitrack only has two mic inputs, and if we put the drums through the mixer first then to the multitrack, the drums become one track.

Thanks... and sorry for being so n00bish.

 

[jonnyc]

Go record with Chessrock, with the knowledge I've seen him share I'm certain he'd make you guys shit your pants with joy.

 

[chessrock]

Have a listen ...

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1298&alid=357

Several of the tunes listed have already gotten some airplay. Do you want to make music, or do you want to be a novice recording engineer? If you want to be an engineer or producer, then you should keep doing what you're doing and get as much practice as possible.

On the other hand, if your goal is to make music, then you should come on down to my place and get something cranked out that you'll be proud of and leave all the other headached to me. I've been doing this long enough to where I've already gone through all the mistakes you're going through right now ... so you could, in essense, bypass the whole learning curve, and just worry about the music.

.

 

[smtcharlie]

You're probably right - we have all of the necessary equipment, but we lack the operating skills. My original plan for the band was to record the bass and two guitars individually on the MRS-8 and then have the drums go through the mixer so we could level them out, and then have that run to the MRS-8 as one track (though that would mean we couldn't equalize the drums piece-by-piece afterwards).

I listened to your songs, I dig them, you guys have an interesting sound and style. Unfortunately, the big thing that you are lacking in your recordings is a good drum sound, I think - both the studio and your own recordings. And since you have kind of a rockin' sound with clean guitars, having a big drum sound is really important for you guys, if you ask me. To answer your original question, I think that the recordings are your limiting factor right now - not songs or performance.

Unfortunately, drums are, in my opinion, the hardest thing to record. And I don't think that the mic's that you listed are going to get the job done. They are all dynamic's, right? Your recording (4th on myspace) sounds like several dynamics put pretty close to drums, and just overloaded to the point of distortion. I've done plenty of this myself! Your PA head might have okay pre-amp's, but it might now. I dont' know.

If you are going to go it on your own, you'll almost definitely need some condensor mics, I am not sure about that Zoom recorder (I used to have a Boss stand alone digital recorder, and I found it so-so at best) so getting a computer interface and some sotfware might definitely be in your future as well, and some pre's. It adds up.

I still think that your best starting point is to go to the MP3 mixing section and listen to lots of stuff. Do you thing the recording sound good? Do you think they sound like home recordings and not what you are after (and if so, what are they using?)? What parts are better then your stuff, and why? Lots of people list exactly the gear they used to record the songs, you can try to figure out if dropping $500 to $1,000 has any shot at giving you a sound that makes you happy (that plus a lot of time to really learn how to record stuff well). Only you can decide this - and keep in mind that instruments and the room and the person running the gear have a HUGE affect on recording quality.

Maybe it seems like going to a studio again is a waste because you have paid for a studio already, and got non-ideal results. I don't know Chess outside of this forum - but based on his samples, he gets killer drums sounds! That's an art, not a science. Maybe recording a some or two would be just the ticket for you. Don't know.

I think that most/all home recorders have made many awful recordings before doing anything interesting. Hang in there, you'll figure it out.