a little help with a little song?

T

t_ebrontosaurus

New member
hiya, I made a quick recording the other day on my TEAC A-3440 and i posted the results on soundclick ( www.soundclick.com/newsocks under the name " An entire year" ) and I was very pleased with the end of the song but the beginning is so far from clarity. I think i am losing a lot of high end when recording... anything i could do beside clean the heads? im pretty sure my tape calibration was correct.. maybe it could've slipped some over time.

the song itself is fairly slippery... shouldve used a metronome. also a poor transfer onto the computer...( i was playing with my compressor a bit. )

hoping to record an entire album on tape if i can, and these are just the preliminary steps to see if i can achieve and keep a good sound.

thanks,
Noah
 
Hi Noah,

I checked the recording. Since I have no idea of what your recording chain is, apart from the 3440, I can only give general comments.

The guitar sounds boomy and veiled. There can be several reasons, and they can all intermingle:

Poor mic placement (boominess is generally around the sound hole of the guitar.)

Poor choice of mic, or just a poor mic, period. I don't know what you use.

Bad acoustics in your recording space. Usually the mid- to low bass is the hardest to control if you record at home. Foam just kills the highs.

So it could be a case of just one or all three acting together. The key thing is to analyze each of the elements and try it differently.

Finally, have you had any problems with the machine?
Could the heads be worn out? If other recent recordings sound fine, then most likely the machine is ok.

Mixwise, as you said, it is a quickie, so yes, there are big differences in level between the intro and where the song changes.

But mixing is the secondary issue. Go through the recording chain and see what is happening, one piece at a time.

Best,
C.
 
Cosmic is right, you need to fill us in on your recording chain, also what tape you used etc... The details on equipment and method of recording would really help here. Get back to us Noah.
 
its always good to listen to other professional musicians in the same style to find a universally accepted quality

the biggest problem always seems to be acoustics. it sounds like it was recorded in a bedroom. maybe find a room with a wood floor?

next mic placement... an inch will give you the difference between boxy and clarity

next would be quality of the mics and preamp..

good luck!
 
well, to all of you!

i certainly should have included my signal chain. Im in such a jumble between school music and my own ive been doing everything too quick.

So, here is the experimental setup I used in my dorm.


for tape: RMGI studio master 911
AT3035 and one msh-1
not quite xy'd... the AT was about two and a half feet away slightly pointed up, and the msh was directed toward the lower half of the fretboard at the same length.

they fed into a mixer (for phantom power) and then both mixed to mono into a behringer tube ultra-Q then into the A-3440.

(Mixing both mics... may be a problem as well... the percent chance that I would have mixed it correctly prior to recording is...slim.)

thinking about this now all seems like such a mess... especially my placement ideas. The room is somewhat of a nightmare for its acoustics... pockets everywhere...all kindsa reflections.

There is a recital hall which i can snag for use on early Friday mornings... but thats a lot of moving.

thanks all
 
Noah,

I can't fault your signal chain, room acoustics and mic placement for the rather muffled sounding sound sample. It's as if someone put a thick pillow over the speakers. I too have a 3440 and I gotta tell you that even with my own personal average signal chain, room acoustics and mic placement, the recorder is easily capable of clear sounds, from the very bottom to the the nice highs, even with a lesser quality tape. Cosmic mentioned recorder problems, head wear etc..... I'd say if the sound sample you provided sounds like this even straight off tape, then you either have significant head wear or have a machine that has strayed off its factory specs in a big way, for whatever reason. Just to be sure, can you post a close up and clear shot of the heads, tape guides and lifters? If the heads are OK then I really don't know what it could be, to explain the extremely muffled sound. Again, the 3440 is capable of much, much more than this and it is a bit worrying what I'm hearing.

Here's a suggestion: Record straight into the MIC inputs of the 3440 and see if the sound is the same. That way we can rule out the mixer etc... Also, were all EQ knobs at neutral when you were recording?
 
Also, Noah, you said the heads were cleaned, are you sure? Inspect the heads under good light and see if there might be caked on gunk there. Yes, the highs are abolutely gone, as is the resolution I'd expect from the 3440. Honestly I'd check first if the heads are indeed mirror clean, prior to doing anything else.
 
A-3440playrecordheadcopy.jpg


here are some less-than-mint pictures of the head.. I dont think it looks too bad in real life... but could use a cleaning. maybe they are... ayeep.

I lightly swabbed them before taking the picture on the top right. Ill have to pick up some soloution.. pure rubbing alcohol, correct?

Also, I'll try recording through the mic jacks this afternoon when i get the chance.

thanks -
 
t_ebrontosaurus said:
here are some less-than-mint pictures of the head.. I dont think it looks too bad in real life... but could use a cleaning. maybe they are... ayeep.

I lightly swabbed them before taking the picture on the top right. Ill have to pick up some soloution.. pure rubbing alcohol, correct?

Also, I'll try recording through the mic jacks this afternoon when i get the chance.

thanks -
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to post the images, Noah. While not very clear, there does appear to be some wear to the heads, a flat but even spot. How deep it is, I can only guess but it *may* be responsible for the loss of fidelity, although I cannot say 100% and to what degree. It would help, though, if you could take a close up pict of the tape lifters (in their extended mode). There also appears to be some strange spots near the head or perhaps on them? What is that? Also, pick up some cotton make up remover pads (NOT q-tips) and 90% or higher isopropyl alcohol and, using some gentle pressure, clean several times. After doing so, indeed record straight into the 3440, via its MIC input and post the result, no mixer, no outboard gear, just mic, cable and 3440. Use a high impedance mice cable and an SM57 dynamic or similar. Post the results or see if it's the same poor fidelity or not.
 
On a 3440 there is a 3 switch row of buttons for monitoring INPUT, SYNC and the PLAY head.

The muffled sound sounds like you had the deck in the SYNC mode when you did your transfer to mp3.

You must have it in the PLAY or repro mode for mixdowns or any critical listening as the sync response may be very limited in its response for monitoring purposes. The sync mode should only be used when you are overdubbing.

I used to own a 3340 and the sync response sounded just like your tape. I'm assuming here that the 3440 didn't get any better in this particular performance area.

Cheers! :)
 
Last edited:
And checking the service manual for the 3440 confirms that there is a steep cut off of the highs in the SYNC mode. Page 22 of the service manual will confirm this.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
The muffled sound sounds like you had the deck in the SYNC mode when you did your transfer to mp3.
Click to expand...

Jeff, bloody good point! I can indeed confirm, monitoring off of the sync head, that it sounds like the above example. If I recall correct from the service manual, the sync head has a cut off high freq at 8 or 10khz (am I close Jeff?). I just didn't raise the possibility 'cause I was looking into something more complex and as we all know, many times it's something simple and obvious that is the culprit. Plus, I didn't want to assume the guy was new to the 3440 and was mixing down through the sync head (if that's the case:eek:). Shame on me for leading the original poster through something potentially unneccessary...:o
 
cjacek said:
Jeff, bloody good point! I can indeed confirm, monitoring off of the sync head, that it sounds like the above example. If I recall correct from the service manual, the sync head has a cut off high freq at 8 or 10khz (am I close Jeff?). I just didn't raise the possibility 'cause I was looking into something more complex and as we all know, many times it's something simple and obvious that is the culprit. Shame on me for leading the original poster through something potentially unneccessary...:o
Click to expand...

Well, don't feel bad! :)

I think we've all been guilty at one or another for looking for the needle in the haystack when we should have been looking for the hay. :D

Let's hear what t_ebrontosaurus (Noah) has to say about this. :cool:

Cheers! :)
 
so nearly a week later!

so i still havent been out to buy anything yet but i tried another experiment using the mic jacks and recording straight no mixer.

www.soundclick.com/newsocks

under the song - Magnetic architecture.

it sounds entirely crisp and clear. I think next time I will use the mic jacks and use a different mic set up.

thanks, cjacek

for keeping the faith of the 3440
 
Hey Noah, I'm glad you were able to straighten it out, to some degree. I understand then, that you were using the playback head to do the mixdown (in both instances) and the only variable you've changed is bypassing the recording chain and going straight into the 3440? Yes, the recording sounds nice a crisp but it kinda threw me... What is that "shhh" noise (sounds like waves)?
 
I dont know how but I managed to miss ghost of fm's posts! It may have been that the sync head was on during playback but I'm not sure. too long ago. Thanks for that piece of info! I oughta re-read the manual again. I keep it hidden away in my choral folder for when I learn the music and get realllll bored with it.

as for that background noise it was meant to be - that was a recording out my window of the wind and a fountain not too far away.

Thanks again for all of your help,
aloha!
 
Yeah, Jeff (Ghost) made the most valid point, imho, 'cause that would account for the low fidelity in your previous recording. DO try it again along with your whole recording chain, making sure you mixdown with the PLAYBACK head and NOT the sync head. The sync head should only be used (on the 3440) to overdub while listenning to another part and not to mixdown. Those early TEAC machines had a rather narrow freq response on the sync head.
 
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