a job in sound engeneering

[Han]

If you plan on attending a recording School anyway, you might want to do it soon because Recording Schools will be the next to go. Why will we need a career building School if there is no career!?
C

I sincerely hope most of them 'schools' will disappear, they get loads of money out of dreams that will never come true.

They money the young guys and gals spend isn't the big problem, but the time they waste during the course and the years after that, chasing their dream.

We're in an era where young guys can't afford to waste much time, within ten years the world will be completely different from now, in a way of jobs and industry.

"But music is my life" will some say and I can fully understand that, but very few can make a decent living from the love for music.

I really hate to be so negative, but this is how things are these days.

 

[HangDawg]

Let's face it--the home recording and DIY movement means that AE's have to offer superior product. More than half of the local studios around where I live are ran by old school "engineers" that put zero effort into their clients' music except to press record. Those clowns need to go out of business.

Man, I have to agree there. There are 2 places in my town to go record. 1 has been there for 25 years or so. The guy is a complete jackass. He's got a really nice place, all the expensive gear. His work completely sucks and everone around knows it. He just doesn't give a shit and just wants people's money. Problem is, there is only 1 other place to go and it's even worse.

Here's where I come in. My studio is small, it's in my garage. I built it myself and all the gear is paid for. I recorded a couple of demos for free and recorded a couple live shows and the reaction has been "Holy shit" for the most part. Now the word is out and I'm getting calls. At $20 an hour, I'm cheaper than the other 2 places and I'm producing better results. My big selling point for now is, I don't charge for mixing, only tracking. That's usually enough for me to take clients from the other guys. I've just started formally taking clients about 5 months ago. I forsee things picking up even more as time goes on.

 

[chessrock]

My big selling point for now is, I don't charge for mixing, only tracking. That's usually enough for me to take clients from the other guys. I've just started formally taking clients about 5 months ago. I forsee things picking up even more as time goes on.

No offense, but I wouldn't necessarily call them "clients" if you're giving them free work. And I can definitely see why business is going so well for you. Who doesn't like free stuff?

You should bill for the hours you're putting in. Right now, you're just taking business away from someone else, and not even making any real money for yourself, unfortunately. I hate to say this, but guys like yourself are kind of the problem. In order to compete with you, the next guy's just going to have to offer free tracking. Pretty soon everyone's just going to be giving away free work.

I have an idea: Let's just all work for free. When you see your boss this afternoon, just tell him "Don't bother giving me a paycheck this week. It's on the house."

 

[Han]

More than half of the local studios around where I live are ran by old school "engineers" that put zero effort into their clients' music except to press record. Those clowns need to go out of business.

That's a pretty bold statement, have you been there?

If you follow the link I posted in my earlier post you can see that very good old(er) school engineers, who really know their shit, are having a hard time.

Calling fellow engineers 'clowns' without knowing them well is cutting corners bro.

If you expect people to come to you in the real world, you are sadly mistaken.
.

People do come to my place, word of mouth.

find the best band in the area and cut a 3-4 song demo with them for free and make it sound AMAZING. A bunch of the other bands in that style will hear it and if they dig it they will call you. I did that 2 years ago with emo bands and now I have 20 clients that are emo bands. When emo becomes passe they will still record with you.

Ten years ago I did this on a regular basis, I invested a lot in talented bands that had no budget, but lots of talent. One band got 35 days of studiotime for free and we made a great album. I was supposed to get a part of the profit, the guys were talking friendship and trust. Now they're famous, but I've never seen them again.

Have a nice day.

 

[CGibson]

Man, I have to agree there. There are 2 places in my town to go record. 1 has been there for 25 years or so. The guy is a complete jackass. He's got a really nice place, all the expensive gear. His work completely sucks and everone around knows it. He just doesn't give a shit and just wants people's money. Problem is, there is only 1 other place to go and it's even worse.

Here's where I come in. My studio is small, it's in my garage. I built it myself and all the gear is paid for. I recorded a couple of demos for free and recorded a couple live shows and the reaction has been "Holy shit" for the most part. Now the word is out and I'm getting calls. At $20 an hour, I'm cheaper than the other 2 places and I'm producing better results. My big selling point for now is, I don't charge for mixing, only tracking. That's usually enough for me to take clients from the other guys. I've just started formally taking clients about 5 months ago. I forsee things picking up even more as time goes on.

Been there, done it.
Every location will be affected differently but ultimately you'll also see a decline in customers.

If your area is still jumpin all I have to say is ride the wave man!
Don't invest much and make plans for change. We're giving you a peek into the future....Hope the best!

C

 

[HangDawg]

No offense, but I wouldn't necessarily call them "clients" if you're giving them free work. And I can definitely see why business is going so well for you. Who doesn't like free stuff?

You should bill for the hours you're putting in. Right now, you're just taking business away from someone else, and not even making any real money for yourself, unfortunately. I hate to say this, but guys like yourself are kind of the problem. In order to compete with you, the next guy's just going to have to offer free tracking. Pretty soon everyone's just going to be giving away free work.

I have an idea: Let's just all work for free. When you see your boss this afternoon, just tell him "Don't bother giving me a paycheck this week. It's on the house."

They are "clients" because I am getting paid. The, not charging for mixing, is sort of my introductory offer if you will. I don't think I will be able to continue to do that. And you are correct, I am taking business away from the other guys. Just like Cloneboy said, they deserve it. The are charging a hefty fee and producing garbage. I just recently had some guys come up to check the place out and I played them a clip from 1 of the other studios. Then I played a clip of my current stuff. Well, needless to say they are coming to me.

 

[HangDawg]

Been there, done it.
Every location will be affected differently but ultimately you'll also see a decline in customers.

If your area is still jumpin all I have to say is ride the wave man!
Don't invest much and make plans for change. We're giving you a peek into the future....Hope the best!

C

You may be right but you know what, I don't care because I have a day job. Anything I make just helps out with the G.A.S syndrome. I'll be recording regardless if I do it for pay or not. I enjoy recording other peoples music. As a matter of fact, I'm all about the music and the bands I've done can tell. If things dry up, so be it.

 

[CGibson]

I sincerely hope most of them 'schools' will disappear, they get loads of money out of dreams that will never come true.

They money the young guys and gals spend isn't the big problem, but the time they waste during the course and the years after that, chasing their dream.

We're in an era where young guys can't afford to waste much time, within ten years the world will be completely different from now, in a way of jobs and industry.

"But music is my life" will some say and I can fully understand that, but very few can make a decent living from the love for music.

I really hate to be so negative, but this is how things are these days.

I've been trying to save kids from this disaster for the last two years but none of them listened. We now have several unemployed Certified Pro Tools Engineers in my area.

Kids are now starting to listen when they find out the burger flipper next to them just got out of Recording School.
Sad.

C

C

 

[JLM]

You may be right but you know what, I don't care because I have a day job. Anything I make just helps out with the G.A.S syndrome. I'll be recording regardless if I do it for pay or not. I enjoy recording other peoples music. As a matter of fact, I'm all about the music and the bands I've done can tell. If things dry up, so be it.

...and that's just the attitude that's adding to the problem. Of course you don't care because you have a day job. Otherwise, I guarantee you wouldn't be working for free. You justify things by saying "I'm all about the music." Please. You wouldn't be so concerned about making sure we know you have "clients" if that were the case. Like someone else said, enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[CGibson]

You may be right but you know what, I don't care because I have a day job. Anything I make just helps out with the G.A.S syndrome. I'll be recording regardless if I do it for pay or not. I enjoy recording other peoples music. As a matter of fact, I'm all about the music and the bands I've done can tell. If things dry up, so be it.

I'm not trying to discourage you or anyone for that matter.
Because I've made my living solely from music for 25 years and I wouldn’t change a thing.
My point is...It's all-good till it aint.
You'll get tired of maintaining gear for free once the money is gone. Every time a cable is broken or a kid drops an expensive mic you'll ask yourself if it's still all-good.

C

 

[HangDawg]

...and that's just the attitude that's adding to the problem. Of course you don't care because you have a day job. Otherwise, I guarantee you wouldn't be working for free. You justify things by saying "I'm all about the music." Please. You wouldn't be so concerned about making sure we know you have "clients" if that were the case. Like someone else said, enjoy it while it lasts.

I think I have a perfect attitude thank you. Adding to what problem? If I can do the job that these other people are claiming they can do, do it better, do it cheaper(due to no loans/rent/wages/etc), and make people feel all warm and fuzzy and make money to buy more gear, why shouldn't I? Am I supposed to feel sorry for the guy with all the high dollar equipment that is turning out crap and driving people away? Hmmmm! Am I?

And god damnit I'm not working for free for the last time! Jiminey F'n crickets. It's a promotional thing.


[edit]
P.S
It'll last as long as there are people wanting to record and the other guys are turning out shit.
[/edit]

 

[HangDawg]

I'm not trying to discourage you or anyone for that matter.
Because I've made my living solely from music for 25 years and I wouldn’t change a thing.
My point is...It's all-good till it aint.
You'll get tired of maintaining gear for free once the money is gone. Every time a cable is broken or a kid drops an expensive mic you'll ask yourself if it's still all-good.

C

The kids WILL be paying me for the chance to drop that mic.

 

[CGibson]

I'll be recording regardless if I do it for pay or not.

Your words not mine.

So again...who will paying for that mic?

C

 

[HangDawg]

Your words not mine.

So again...who will paying for that mic?

C

I should have stated, that better. I will be recording myself and any bands that I may be in. I started this for myself. I buy the gear for myself. You gotta buy something right

I just so happens that there is a lack of recording studios in my area. If people are willing to pay me to record them, I will do everthing I can to ensure that it is the best that I can possibly do. Nothing else will suffice, period. That's the way I am with everything.

The guys I've been working with feel they are getting ripped off when they go to these other 2 studios. They know the engineer just doesn't give a shit about the music. They want paid and that's all they are worried about. I have given people a very good alternative.

 

[CGibson]

I should have stated, that better. I will be recording myself and any bands that I may be in. I started this for myself. I buy the gear for myself. You gotta buy something right

I just so happens that there is a lack of recording studios in my area. If people are willing to pay me to record them, I will do everthing I can to ensure that it is the best that I can possibly do. Nothing else will suffice, period. That's the way I am with everything.

The guys I've been working with feel they are getting ripped off when they go to these other 2 studios. They know the engineer just doesn't give a shit about the music. They want paid and that's all they are worried about. I have given people a very good alternative.

I hope it last a long time for you man.
You sound like you really care about the product you put out.
Good luck

C

 

[HangDawg]

I hope it last a long time for you man.
You sound like you really care about the product you put out.
Good luck

C

Thank you.



If you aren't going to do something well, you shouldn't do it at all. That's how I look at it. Others apparently do not. Maybe it's like somebody around here just said. After awhile, it becomes work just like anything else. If it gets that way for me, I'll stop. I already have a career.

 

[CGibson]

Thank you.



If you aren't going to do something well, you shouldn't do it at all. That's how I look at it. Others apparently do not. Maybe it's like somebody around here just said. After awhile, it becomes work just like anything else. If it gets that way for me, I'll stop. I already have a career.

Ya...I have a career also. Unfortunately all related to a dieing industry. (music)
My city has gone through some devastating changes related to the music industry. Which in great part includes the recording industry.

C

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

That's a pretty bold statement, have you been there?

I've visited the major studios in my area, and most of the not-so-major. All of them have some faults, be it the 75/hour rates and the elitist attitude that scares off people, or the inability to meet their clients' needs.

Ten years ago I did this on a regular basis, I invested a lot in talented bands that had no budget, but lots of talent. One band got 35 days of studiotime for free and we made a great album. I was supposed to get a part of the profit, the guys were talking friendship and trust. Now they're famous, but I've never seen them again.

What did you expect? What you failed to capitalize on is the fact that YOU RECORDED SOMEONE THAT GOT FAMOUS. Technically, if you exploited that fact and ran your mouth night and day about that particular point every younger band should want to record with you and at your place hoping that 'magic' will rub off. You don't tell anyone that they recorded free--just that you recorded them.

Personally it was a victory that you turned into defeat through short-sightedness and inability to see the forest-for-the-treeisms.

Also, you fell victim to non-contract-itis. If you were supposed to get profit sharing/points on the album they should have been signing on the little dotted line with your lawyers.

Honestly, you have no one to blame but yourself, man.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Let's face it... a lot of the older engineer dudes I have met and known were from the 'gentleman's game' school of recording. They saw themselves as artists and technicians and wanted respect and warm feelings all around.

Nowadays you have to be a businessman.

 

[Han]

What did you expect? What you failed to capitalize on is the fact that YOU RECORDED SOMEONE THAT GOT FAMOUS. Technically, if you exploited that fact and ran your mouth night and day about that particular point every younger band should want to record with you and at your place hoping that 'magic' will rub off. You don't tell anyone that they recorded free--just that you recorded them.

I'm the kind of guy who helps other people because I'm helpful. No such thing as failure.

Personally it was a victory that you turned into defeat through short-sightedness and inability to see the forest-for-the-treeisms.

Also, you fell victim to non-contract-itis. If you were supposed to get profit sharing/points on the album they should have been signing on the little dotted line with your lawyers.

First off, I dont feel like a victim whatsoever. Why do you think there ain't no contract? I'm not that stupid. Besides that, the 24 track tapes are my property and waiting in the archive, getting more expensive by the day

Honestly, you have no one to blame but yourself, man.

You have a pretty big mouth bro, the band was recorded in 1995 and my place was booked almost 100% day and night that time.
These days my place is still booked more than other studios in my part of the country, for $60 per hour, not bad huh?