A heretical question about amp modelers

[Cyrokk]

Whatever modeler you buy, just make sure it gives you the option to hook up to an amp. You might decide to change your mind later. Modelers make pretty decent alternatives to fx boxes. And using combinations of both a modeller and mic'd amp can give you the best of both worlds, plus doubling your options from a soundcrafting standpoint.

As for the whole "real amp is better" debate, yeah sure. Nothing like the real thing. But some of the heaviest sounds on records came from multiple guitar tracks played in multiple amps and setups. Who has the cash for all those amps? Even if you have just one, you can't double or triple the tracks with the same amp settings without it sounding scratchy and overdone. That's where modellers really come into play for the guy in his bedroom fluffing tracks...

But then again, the guitars to my favorite Zep song Black Dog were done through a direct box, and I still don't give a ding-dong damn what other people tout. If your ears can't tell, who cares? Do you think the millions of people that bought GnR's "Appetite for Destruction" would have stopped cold in their purchase if they found out that Slash used an Epiphone for the session as opposed to a Gibson?

Cy

 

[HapiCmpur]

Well... I'd say I'm giiving you exactly what you expected...

One of the first things you say in your post is "...so I’m probably going to take a fair amount of abuse for asking a question like this, but here goes...", so why are you complaining.....???

Wow! It must really suck to be you and to have no better way to puff up your little ego than waiting around to ambush newbies and butting in on discussions in which you don’t actually have anything helpful to add. Let me give you a quick education, Mr. 97% Accuracy: Your subjective opinion does not magically become an objective fact just because you state it rudely and arrogantly.

When I said that I wouldn’t be surprised if I took some abuse for my question, I was referring to the fact that I’m not all that interested in tailoring my sound on a digital modeler. I made that very clear. And had you not been so quick to try to find any loophole--any excuse to be a blowhard--it would have dawned on you that if I’m not interested in investing the time in tailoring sound on a digital modeler, then I sure as hell am not interested in the trial and error of miking real amplifiers.

You really ought to spend more time on your hobby and less time on childish and failed attempts to make other people feel small. In short, get a life. And by the way, if you think anybody really believes that 97% accuracy crap, you’re deluded. There are very few people in the world who are 97% accurate on anything, but there are millions who are 97% assholes. The fact that you feel the need to announce that you think you’re in the first category is an excellent indication that you’re really in the second.

Consider therapy.

P.S. I know that you will not be able to resist attempting another pathetic comeback, but this will be my last post on the subject. May your retort bring you everlasting peace.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

*sigh* another deficient newbie...

I'm not going to comment on most of your nonsense - except for one part:

...if I’m not interested in investing the time in tailoring sound on a digital modeler, then I sure as hell am not interested in the trial and error of miking real amplifiers.

Then enjoy staying in the "sound-that-sucks" zone, rookie...

Mic'ing an amp isn't trial and error when you know what you're doing...

 

[64Firebird]

HapiCmpur take a chill pill! Blue Bear is blunt, but that doesn't mean that he's not sharp.

 

[Fusioninspace]

Clarification to "Digital Sound"

Sorry if I cause confusion on the "digital sound" comment. Maybe a better comment would have been "not tube"

I run everything through an ART Tube MP when I record and that tends to help "warm up" the signal. And by "warm up" I mean that the attack/decay of the signal seem to be a little more "smooth and forgiving". And by "smooth and forgiving" I mean that chords and individual notes sound "more pleasant to the ear". And by "more pleasant to the ear" I certainly don't mean "digital sound" And by that I mean ....

I think this really boils down to personal preference!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Then let's clear up the myth one more time....

There is NO SUCH THING as "digital sound".

There is a digital recording media that, with good converters, captures accurately everything you throw at it.... if you throw garbage into it, you get garbage out of it...

If you're not getting the sound you want -- start at the source and work your way up to the cable going into your recorder and you can stop there if you have even a half-decent A/D converter.... it's your signal path that's the root of 99% of people's sound probems - NOT the recording format.....

 

[guhlenn]

Yes,

evryone knows there is no such thing as the "sound of digital"...

Neither does "the sound of not tube"....

However these are wqords used to describe something... a fat guitar is not wrapped in bacon... a heavy sound does not weigh more then a light sound... Soo yes you are right Bear, but you could have known these are subjective interpetations of sound, and sound isn't easy to describe...


Being able to understand people even though they do not use the physically correct terms could be seen as a virtue too...

Guhlenn

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

"sounds digital" is not a subjective term at all -- it's a completely meaningless description.

I'm not being picky here -- propogating meaningless terms such as this is very misleading to novices and rookies reading this -- which is why I'm disagreeing with the "subjective description."

 

[guhlenn]

a fat guitar has meaning as a description only when it applies to the thickness of the body. I'm pretty sure you have used numerous subjective terms to describe tone and music... where do you draw the line? digital isn't but "warm" or "fat is? ...

bottom line; i think you had to much coffee this morning... but then again, maybe i did...

Guhlenn

 

[64Firebird]

I have to agree with Blue Bear. If I push the record button in Sonar with nothing hooked up to make a sound when I play it back I get only silance. In contrast, if I do the same thing with tape I'll hear a hissing sound. Therefore, tape has a sound, but digital doesn't.

 

[Phyl]

I've tried all the modellers (pod, j-sta, GT-3, GT-5, Tech 21, etc) and was very disappointed in all of them, they just could not get close to that slightly overdriven chunka-chunka rhythm tone I was looking for.

I ended up buying a tube pre-amp (real tube II) and it gets me a lot closer to what I want.

Of the modellers, I thought Tech 21 equipment was the most believable, but it only took a month before I put mine on e-bay.

 

[Kevzmusic]

So far - I also feel that the POD "is" the best of the amp modellers out there at the moment , although, I will admit, all the 'clean' amp settings do sound similar, as do most of the 'rock' tones....there really isn't much difference between many of the amp settings....also, I don't like it that one cannot 'mix & match' the preset effects together - it's kinda limited in that department.

But, after using (or demoing) the other alternatives...I still think it has the nicest sound...the Mod High Gain is the best reproductuion IMHO...and with some added chorus/delay and a few tweaks ya can really get a good Gilmour type sound...

ALL of the amp modellers to date have that "processed" character to them, but maybe someone will truly get their act together soon, and produce exactly what WE are looking for.

I am hoping that this new *REPLITONE MP* (rack unit) from Rocktron will actually be better, and from everything I've read to date, it sounds like it might be the bizzo

Maybe in the near future I can get my grubby mitts on one

KEV

 

[guhlenn]

so what about that replitone? is it a real modeller? i a;lways liked the rocktron stuff (high quality shit!) but they never touched the modeller market...

Guhlenn

 

[Kevzmusic]

Here's the info on the REPLITONE MP - yep it's a modelling amp. very similar to the POD Pro - ME thinks, but appears more versitile, being able to customize, mix n match effects

Replitone MP Modelling Preamp


Now get the same incredible features found in our award-winning RepliTone combo amps in a single-rack space preamp package with the RepliTone MP. The ultimate in DSP modeling technology and effects processing, the RepliTone MP includes Rocktron’s breakthrough Digital Tube Replication (DTR®) to accomplish an astounding job of replicating numerous vintage and modern amplifiers.

The RepliTone MP offers 16 vintage and modern amplifier replications, including Tweeds, Plexi’s, Fuzz Tones, Jazz Tones, Thrash, and Class A 70’s Style. Each replication features all of the dynamic characteristics of the original tones including EQ, gain structure and attack dynamics, (or to put in guitar player language – "The FEEL of the REAL THING.")

The controls of the RepliTone MP are laid out in a traditional amp style with knobs for adjusting Bass, Mid, Treble, Gain and Volume. Additional controls for Effect Adjust, Reverb Level and Delay Level make it extremely simple to use and adjust in those real critical moments on stage.

The RepliTone MP features a programmable 24-bit DSP effect section based on our world-class standard IntellifexÒ . Dozens of effect configurations include delays, choruses, flange, phaser, compressor, wah, tremolo, detune, rotary speaker and reverb. Dialing in just the right amount of effects is made easy by using the Effect Select knob to select the effect and adjusting the Effect Adjust knob to modify it. HUSH® noise reduction technology is also included to keep things quiet.

Delay Time or Trem Rate can be set on the fly with the Delay Time and Rate buttons. 128 MIDI programmable presets (which can be switched via any MIDI controller) and stereo effect loop make it very easy to use tons of tones in any live situation.

The studio is also a perfect place for the RepliTone MP. Not only can you achieve almost any tone you want, you can use the Headphone output with Speaker Simulation to run the RepliTone MP direct in STEREO! In addition, plug the RepiTone MP into your computer and access other presets from our website, plus share your presets with other Rocktron users worldwide. A simple and easy computer interface allows you to customize your presets right on the computer; check it out today.

Check it out...

KEV

 

[NobleSavage]

Re: *sigh* another deficient newbie...

I'm not going to comment on most of your nonsense - except for one part:

Then enjoy staying in the "sound-that-sucks" zone, rookie...

Mic'ing an amp isn't trial and error when you know what you're doing...

Howzabout a link to some of your recorded tracks with sound that doesnt suck so we can do an a/b comparison?

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Re: Re: *sigh* another deficient newbie...

Howzabout a link to some of your recorded tracks with sound that doesnt suck so we can do an a/b comparison?

I've posted plenty of stuff... use the fuckin' search engine........

 

[NobleSavage]

Re: Re: Re: *sigh* another deficient newbie...

I've posted plenty of stuff... use the fuckin' search engine........

wow, you have one link to a COVER song which doesnt work.

You may or may not be a production genius(cant here to tell) but as far as marketing goes you definitely have "suck" sound.

I can hear you now:

fan: "Where can I get your latest all cover cd?"

BBS: "Fuckin' find it yourself."

LOL

 

[Kevzmusic]

Hey NobleSavage...

Never mind a bout Blue Bear - Take a listen to MY sound

I've been using the Line6 gear on all my guitar tracks.........check out my latest tune entitled "NOTHING FANCY" and gimmee your opinion.

http://www.acidplanet.com/lounge/Detail.asp?PID=201122

Cheers,

KEV

 

[KaBudokan]

Well, I understand what BlueBear is saying about the "no such thing as "sounds digital," but...

I know EXACTLY what someone is talking about when they say that about amp modelers. It's the exact same thing I have said about some of them (especially the digitech stuff, IMO). Yeah,, it's an inaccurate term, technically, but I do understand the exact sound someone is talking about when they say that about modelers. It's the same "indescribable" term I used to describe sounds I heard when I auditioned stuff.

As far as modelers, I tried the POD, J-Station, Sansamp, etc. when I was looking (about 1 1/2 years ago) and I ended up buying a Yamaha DG Stomp, which I still think sounds better than most of the other modelers. The drawback is that it doesn't have the rangew of sounds, but what it does it does very well.

It's worth looking into if you're looking for an easy to tweak alternative that sounds really good. Then again, I've also been known to record guitars direct through a $25 smokey amp and get killer tone, so... It must just be in my magic fingers!

PS - Kevzmusic, it's good to see another AcidPlanet face here. (I'm the Shady Neighbor over there... I think you may have reviewed a tune or two of mine.)

 

[guhlenn]

NobleS, LMAO!!

anyway kabudokan , in thank you...

Guhlenn