$4000-5000 budget for mixer

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moelar2

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I am finally going to rent out a space to setup all my recording stuff and make a buck or two recording local bands. The next big thing I have to buy is a respectable mixer. I used a Mackie 32*8 that I borrowed on a regular basis, but many people seem to talk down on that mixer, eventhough I thought it worked great for me. Is there a mixer I can purchase in the $4-5K (i'm perfectly fine with used gear) that will 1) sound better than the mackie and 2) make my gear list look better? Some one suggested a used soundworks board for $3K...anything else out there?
 
The big Tascam boards maybe? They seem to go for something like that. Or a helluva lot cheaper if you are lucky. :)

The market for mixers in the upper Mackie-range seems to be crumbling at the moment, so with luck and speed some good deals might be possible.

Good luck!
 
Soundcraft Ghost and Soundtraks Topaz are two popular boards in that range. The Ghost has a lot of modern features like mute automation and machine control.
 
What Tex said!

Ghosts are your best bet for that dollar range if you need more than 16-24 ins.

Tom
 
Yea!

That ghost looks nice! And, at that price, its not bad at all...I'm basically trying to play my cards right insofar as "use" and "looks" are concerned. You see, I feel that in order to be somewhat attractive, if not competitive (as a studio), you have to have certain toys that may or may not *actually* (for all practical purposes) add to what you can really do. Take a long analog desk-style console for example, how much better off would I REALLY be than if I had a pair of Manley Mic Pre's and a Mackie VLZ 1604 for everything else (i.e., rack toms, overheads...) when doing multiple input recording? I mean, even if I had the ghost, I would still use the manley or avalon pre's for vox/kick & snare/etc... but what the hell do I need those other thousand channels for if I'm mainly computer based and I don't mind mixing on SX?? But I realize that people want to walk into a studio and they want to see that mile-long console...and to a certain extent, you have to please that desire....

And then, one of the guys at the local store was trying to get me into the Sony digital mixer for $14K. It looks appealing, and sure, it'd be nice to have the digital interface and the flying faders and all that good stuff...but how much better off am I really? Is the improvement worth $14K?

I took a recording i did to Precision Mastering in L.A. in which I used a mackie CFX12 live mixer($400) into SX and the mastering engineer found nothing wrong with it...i asked him what he thought about the recording and he his reaction was that the recording was good...i asked if it was competitive, and even conceeded that I was sure he had heard some of the best mixes out there, and his response was along the lines of 'sure, i've heard great recordings, but this recording is good too.'
 
It's funny that you bring up things looking attractive. One of my teachers, who has a decent amount of credits to his name, has an HD3 system and a Control 24, with other outboard stuff. He brought us to his place to show us around and asked us why we thought he got the control 24. He said for looks. The pre's are ok, it functions as a control surface pretty well, but it's nothing amazing. But when prospective clients walk in and see it, they get all excited. Just thought I'd add that.
Good luck
 
I'd love to have a Ghost, but since you are discussing your recording process, have you considered a lower-midrange digital console (like a used Mackie D8B, the Soundcraft digital board, Yamaha 01V, or even the Tascam D24)? These could tie into your digital setup, provide some added features that would require more outboard gear to accomplish the same tasks, and still give you the feel of a mixer (along with flying faders).

Just a thought.....
 
I've considered the Dm24...but it seems to me like the problem i'm discussing is still there...a dm24 is not exactly a "jaw dropping" type of board...to the foolish eye, its just another small homerecording board - it certainly doesn't "look" that impressive; not next to a 20 year old 1 ton board...eventhough, in my opinion, its much more practical, especially for my setup.

Basically, I want to know If I'm giving the aesthetic or looks aspect of the board too much validation...
 
A ghost would look cool for sure, but in the Nuendo - SX world... is it practical?

Are you better off with:

OPTION I
6 API's and a powered rack - $3500
2 Neve-esqe pre's - $1800
2 Insert name here pre's - $1000
2 Yamaha O1V's to control the DAW $2000
TOTAL - $8300 (more or less)

OR

OPTION II
1 Ghost - $4000
6 pack outboard pre's - $3500
TOTAL $7500

Option one would still let you cover drums, rhythm, and lead all at once, but you'd either have to use the O1V's pre's for scratch tracks, or do the vocals and bass in iso.

Option 2, you'd depend more on the boards pre's, but you could only control 8 channels of your daw, so you're mousing around to mix and you're options, as far as pre's go, are much more limited.

For the extra 800 bucks, I'd go with option one, have a KILLER front end, and a pretty nice control surface that would control more than 8 channels.

Then build it all into an Argosy console. It'd be First Class!
 
API?? (i bet its something real obvious!)

Option I certainly seems to make more sense. I don't understand what you mean by me only being able to control 8 channels of the DAW with option II on the GHOST console? Isn't that number determined by the number of outputs on my interface - or are we talking about two different thigns??
 
moelar2 said:
1) sound better than the mackie and 2) make my gear list look better? Some one suggested a used soundworks board for $3K...anything else out there?
Click to expand...

I think that #1 should be your priority, and don't worry too much about #2. For 4-5k you aren't going to get a blow-away board as far as "appearances" anyway, so don't even worry about that. Just go with sound.

As far as people walking into the room and being impressed with a 1 ton board, that could cut either way. Those old boards can look like dinosaurs, along with whoever owns them. "Appearances" you know. Maybe the blinky flashing lights and flying faders of a new digital board will be more impressive to your prospective customers.

So the bottom line is, don't waste your time thinking about what may or may not impress others. Just get whatever you think sounds good and what works for you. If that's a Mackie 32/8 or a Ghost or a Tascam DM-24 or something else, then that's great. Whatever you like the sound of and has the features and channel count you need.

You don't say whether you are recording analog or digital, and that's a major part of the cost equation. In other words, if you need a bunch of converters, should you get an analog board and outboard converters, or a digital board with a bunch of converters built in?

I currently own a couple of digital boards and would love to go analog again. The main thing I like about digital mixers is the recall of mixes/internal routing, and the integration with my DAW. That's really huge, but I do prefer a good analog mixer as far as sound.
 
Sonicalbert

I'm recording mainly in the digital platform into Cubase SX. We do have a Tascam MSR16 that we use from time to time, but recently it has only been used to record drums, which are then dumped into Cubase for overdubbs. One of my main concerns with getting a digital board is in the EQ. When I'm tracking drums and equing them on our Tascam M-2516 mixer the contrast between that EQ and the VST Eq on Cubase is night and day. The EQ on my board is sooooo much better. One of my options is to continue doing what I'm doing, and whenever I'm ready for mixdown, bring it back into the analog board and mix from there onto a two track while still automating from DAW. I'd basically be using the console for EQ and outboard gear inserts.

So then, by purchasing a DM24 or the fancy-schmancy Sony digital console (for $14K!) what advantage other than "flying faders" am i really getting? ARe the EQ/effects algorithms THAT much better than those in cubase sx or plugins??
 
Analog and digital eq are two different animals, as you know. I find the eq on the DM-24 to be clean, but not to have the same kind of tone that a good analog eq will have. That's just the nature of the beast, and I haven't heard any eq plugin I like as much as ana analog eq box.

I can't compare it directly to Cubase eq though, as I haven't heard that.

One of the main advantages to a digital mixer is recall, and how that eases working on multiple projects over a period of time. Once you get used to recall it really is hard to conceive working any other way. That, and the other major advantages are easy integration with a DAW, and multiple channels of AD and DA conversion available at a relatively inexpensive cost compared to outboard units.
 
I use the Dm24 that you say isn't all that atractive but it works great for what I am doing and I have more clients then I know what to do with and yet no one has ever came and said
IS THIS IT ? so the bottum line is get what will work best for you and help you get the job done .
Moelar2 had said he used digital and it was nice to have the Automation and library functions. the thing is you have to way what would help you the most, for me those functions give me more time to work on the mix much quicker and save the clients from waiting around paying extra money watching me recreate the mix each time we get together, so do what is best for you.
good luck and best wishes
 
TexRoadkill said:
Soundcraft Ghost and Soundtraks Topaz are two popular boards in that range. The Ghost has a lot of modern features like mute automation and machine control.
Click to expand...

I bought my Topaz for $1250 ;)


Moelar2:
I must say, to spend $4-5000 to replace something that "works great for you" sounds crazy to me.

Or, you got too much money.
 
Just bought a Ghost 32 off ebay ... €3000, but thought it was a Mute version.. it wasn't so I got it for €2400 and I will add a Doepfer pocket midi fader, so I will have 16 midi faders on top of a 72ch desk which has already impressed everyone walking in my room.

(FWIW: just saw a Ghost Mute 32 with VCA automation going for €3800... )

if you can get your budget up to about $7000 a whole other world will open: Soundcraft DC2020, used Sony DMX100's, Soundtracs IL 48,...)

Why not go with a Ghost AND some outboard pre's, the Ghosts' aren't that expensive.


Herwig
 
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