388 and M-308, summing their Main Stereo Busses help

H

Hammond

New member
Hello everyone,

Been here reading occasionally over the years, and a lot recently... much information and help with my 388 has been passively received. But now I'm in a spot where I need to be active w/ a question.

I am wanting to (non-destructively) sum the two main outs from my 388 and my M-308. More specifically, I'd like the main stereo buss from the M-308 to leave pre-fader and come into the 388 to be summed and controlled by its mains fader during mix-down. I'm thinking a simple pigtail wire and connector sneaking out somewhere without damage from the 308 and a similar pigtail/receptacle on the 388 side to receive it and plug in when its needed. Pretty sure it is doable and looking at the schematics and PCB's it probably is straight forward for some people here. However, I'm just not sure how to go about the circuitry side of it. Resistors needed? / switch needed? or could it be just plug and play?

Here is a quick breakdown of the set-up and workflow that's in progress: Currently tracking on 388. Soon & hopefully will be dumping some tracks through a MOTU 1224 into Audition using a MOTU MIDI Express XT as the SMPTE middleman with Audition slaved to the 388. (btw / I really appreciate some of these 12+ year old threads here that continue to help to this day.... I'm looking at you SweetBeats). During mix down I'd like to be able to treat the 388 and M-308 and a single desk with the tape tracks being mixed right there on the 388 and the Audition/MOTU coming in on the 8 ins of the 308. The Mains will then go out to a Teac A3300SX-2T for final. As of right now I'm keeping AUX and Effect busses separate on the two desks but who knows, if this plug idea works I guess I could also sum those as well as an option.

Any and all thoughts and ideas on this problem would be very welcome,

Thanks all
 
Just use the STEREO BUSS IN jacks on the 388 to input the stereo sun from the M-300 console…that brings a stereo sun into the 388 just ahead of the L-R MASTER fader. On the M-300 stereo sun output, why do you need it to be pre-fade? I’m not asking because I think it’s wrong or anything, I’m just not following why it can’t be post fade.
 
ahh // thank you about the 388 stereo buss-in is just pre-fader. I assume it joins everything else already riding the buss?

2/ Just one less link in the chain was my rationale. I know there are many ways to skin this, I was just trying to work out a clean simple signal flow.
 
1. That’s right. Here’s an excerpt from the Block Diagram…#15 in the upper left corner is the BUSS IN jacks. You can see they connect to the input amp for the MASTER fader #16, which of course feeds the STEREO OUT jacks:

2FC55CC8-2A16-4649-8BD5-ABA182BC8567.png

2. Right, I get that, but how simple is it if you have to open up the console and start soldering stuff and coming up with how to modify the console just for a pre-fade out on the main buss? As far as any advantage there as to reduced noise or distortion it is essentially nil; no benefit. So if it was me I would just use one pair of the RCA L-R output jacks…notice there are two pairs of those for this exact reason, so you can send the master sum to two different places if needed, like a DAW interface or some other master recorder, and the summing input of another console, like the mixer on your 388…built in ‘Y’ cables. If you want independent level control of the sum going to the 388 STEREO BUSS IN jacks, and you have a couple PGM groups free, just assign your inputs to the L-R buss as well as a pair of the PGM groups. Connect the RCA outs of those PGM groups to the 388 BUSS IN jacks, and the PGM faders independently control the level to the 388…set and forget…and the L-R faders are available to independently control the output level to wherever that’s going. You could also use the MONITOR OUT jacks in a similar way if you’re not otherwise using that set of outputs.
 
The other thing is having post fade control of that feed to the 388 allows level matching without having to adjust an entire mix. What if the mix from the M-308 is too hot relative to the 388 sum? Your only choice is to pull down every channel fader on the M-308 and you’ll have to tweaker with the mix to get it right again. Oh whoops now it’s too soft relative to the 388 sum…now you’ve gotta raise every input fader on the M-308. Ugh. If you feed the 388 post fade you can bring the mix up our down with a pair of faders and keep the mix intact.

Here’s another thing: if you ever want to sell the M-308 I guarantee some mystery pigtail coming out of the console will make any buyer go “oh shit what’s happening here? Ummm…how about [some amount of money less than what you’re asking, now less after seeing mystery pigtail]?”
 
I hear what you're saying. all of it, and they're all good points.
I'm not worried about the pigtail - working on the assumption I'd be adding it and if need be in future I'd unsolder it.

This idea of merging two desks into one isn't too unheard of / the old place from my old days going back almost 30 years now had two Neve 8038's in one room which when it was all said and done had 62 inputs down to two faders for the two Studer A820 24's /locked up running 48 (among a lot of other wacky custom treats added during the merge) and the other room was a nice 36 channel hand built board with 24 Neve preamp and eq modules added on top. However, with that said I had nothing to do with any of that.. it was all designed and built by the owner himself. All us studio staff engineers did was occasionally replace caps and resistors under his supervision when there were down days. I would call him to ask about this but he's walking up on 80 years old now and I haven't talked with him since all those Neve's and Studers and LA-2As and Altecs and U-47s and the Hammond and both Steinways all went to auction not so long after 911/ I was just looking to see if there was a really stripped down poor mans solution by focusing on just the mains only and not any of the sends. Opening up the 308 and seeing that beautiful buss board staring back at me with juicy fat traces clearly labeled 'Main L' and 'Main R' seems to be just begging for some hot solder /and the 388 is equally open and clean and seems to be manageable to work in to add whatever would be needed. I know I could consider the 308 as a sub-mix and would have the 308 stereo faders to manage the overall level to the 388 but that's not the same feel as mixing 16 straight.

Also, the reason I was all jazzed up earlier was my eBay app dinged to tell me the M-300 Series manual I bought last week was delivered. It's here now and I'll poke around. Only have a pdf for the 388. I have a hunch that the level matching between these to boards might not be a big/huge issue. At the end of the day I'm trying to have fun with this and now that my son is 16 and getting into good old Fruity Loops, or as he says/ FL Studio / I figured I would set up some of my old stuff and buy some other stuff and show him the fun of mixing outside the computer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top