3630

[Lt. Bob]

Come on... a musician playing through gear he doesn't like is an angry frustrated artist... ...

A musician that gets that distracted by things he has no control of is a pain in the ass. That's the same guy that also plays like crap on a song he doesn't care for or plays like crap if he doesn't like the venue or the dressing room or how someone looks at his date. I hate guys like that ..... I don't hire them again ..... and they're the guys that the other players talk about when they're discussing who they don't like to work with.
The reality is that you play with what you got and you get what you can afford. Sure, everyone prefers the best but lack of the best isn't gonna stop someone that really has the music jones .... it'll only stop posers.
Charlie Parker ..... one of the greatest players in history played a lot of his most famous stuff on a piece of shit plastic sax ..... he didn't like it and it was a total piece of crap that I've never heard anyone say was anything else but crap. And he was on record as saying it was a terrible horn. But it was all he could afford so he made some of the most important jazz music of all time regardless because that's what he had.
I have good gear ...... but if tomorrow all I had was an Epi LP jr and and piece of crap student horn I'd still be playing ..... working all the time and, after an adjustment to the crappy horn, making decent music with it despite its' limitations.
It always amazes me how many times when I say this someone pops up to tell me what a real musician thinks. I've played about 11,000 paying gigs and I've done absolutely nothing but play music for 40 freakin' years and I know pro musicians as well as anyone here and better than most and if someone really has the music in their blood they'll find a way to make it with what they can get their hands on and there's plenty of historical examples to back that up. When I'm looking for people to play gigs ..... I'm looking for someone who talks about playing ..... if I hear them talking about nothing but gear and how, "Oh, I have to have this or I just can't play" ..... then I can be pretty sure they're fairly amateur by my standards.

I'm not[/] saying that good players don't care at all about their gear. Hell, they're gonna be far more aware of what constitutes good gear than anyone else. I know good saxes better than anyone here ..... but if my ax got stolen and all I could get was a Jupiter piece of shit then I'd be gigging with the Jupiter and I wouldn't think of it at all while I was playing ....... I'd still be trying to play stuff that people would talk about and unless the horn was totally unplayable I'd find a way to do so.

 

[travelin travis]

Maybe some folks ears are more sensitive to shitty gear than others.

If I'm playing thru a crappy rig I'll make the best of it but it does bother me. Once you get a taste for the good stuff it's hard to go back to using crap and keep a smile on your face. It is for me any way. From what I've seen, guys that can just blow off their sound probably don't have a clue as to what their sound is.

As far as playing a song I don't like, I don't play songs I don't like. Why would anyone? If you're making money off of playing songs you don't like you're either really hungry or playing music for the wrong reasons. If you're really hungry, get a restaurant job for god's sake. If a band mate is trying to shove a song down my throat, fuck him. That's his problem for being a dick, not mine. I would never do that to someone. It's fucking wrong! It's like a gay guy trying to talk a straight guy into ass sex. Fuck no, it ain't happening buddy!

You wouldn't like playing with me Bob. Plug me into a Crate and ask me to play some Winger and I'll likely tell you to fuck yourself.

 

[MOFO Pro]

on a piece of shit plastic sax ..... he didn't like it and it was a total piece of crap that I've never heard anyone say was anything else but crap. And he was on record as saying it was a terrible horn

And if it didn't matter to him why would he go on record with that... and he ditched it as soon as he could afford better... Why? Because he knew that a better horn would let him present a better performer (not make him a better player).

I'm not[/] saying that good players don't care at all about their gear. Hell, they're gonna be far more aware of what constitutes good gear than anyone else. I know good saxes better than anyone here ..... but if my ax got stolen and all I could get was a Jupiter piece of shit then I'd be gigging with the Jupiter and I wouldn't think of it at all while I was playing

How could you not... as your fingers ached 10 minutes into the set from the horrible action, as you worked up the neck and started going flat because of the crappy intonation... as the frets buzzed away every time you put any emphasis behind it.
Could an artist with two tubes of oil paint create a masterpiece? Of course... he'd be no less of an artist... but think of what he could do with a full pallet... Could a formula one driver race in a volkswagon beetle... sure... would he still be a great driver... yup... would he feel any satisfaction as the other drivers passed him like he was standing still... I doubt it... he'd be slammin' the steering wheel cursing the crappy POS car

Bob- I've seen you post on this topic before... You're very passionate about it, and I respect, and in most ways agree, with your opinions on professional musicians. But your blanket statement that it just doesn't matter... I can't agree with. I never stated that a musician couldn't perform with crappy gear... just that it would be frustrating to do so.

 

[Ford Van]

Just like I thought, not a one of you can determine what tracks the 3630 was used on those mp3's.

I discount all you guys judgment concerning this compressor! I mean, if it is so aweful, it should be quite obvious when it is in use right?

 

[chessrock]

Just like I thought, not a one of you can determine what tracks the 3630 was used on those mp3's.

I discount all you guys judgment concerning this compressor! I mean, if it is so aweful, it should be quite obvious when it is in use right?

It's obviouly on the triangle track.

Duh.

.

 

[rsolinski]

Mp3's are EXTREMELY bad things to use for critical listening purposes so I didn't even bother. Ipod/headphones while exercising? sure.....The 3630 isn't that bad if you use it to shave a few db off of something at a low ratio..and a definatley a background track...put it on the lead vox or guitar cracking 10 db and you will puke.. distortion, pumping, loss of high freq come screaming out at you...so use it to learn..you can't beat free! hold on to it..if you ever get a high end comp do an a/b on the same source and a light bulb will come on over your head ...no serious rooms I have ever seen have a 3630..

Cheers,
Ray

 

[soundchaser59]

Hmm, interesting. Is that pro studio or "pro" studio?

Well.......I AM in Nebraska......

And this IS "Home" Recording...... which means most of the budgets lurking and snooping around this forum can afford a 3630.

I've never heard anybody cringe and exclaim, "My GAWD WHY did they use that stupid 3630 on this tune?"

It's the easiest compressor to learn on, and it's only $99 bucks. If you need better sound than that then you need a better forum than this....

Lt. Bob is right....... we may not like the 3630, but Bob is right.

As for the toilet analogy above, that isn't valid either. Everybody has no choice but to require pooping and pissing.

But you have a choice on compressors, and every studio around here has a 3630. It's not the only compressor they have, but they do have one.

 

[soundchaser59]

It's a good thing people in Florida can cuss so well......I'd never understand them otherwise.... all communication would just break down without it.

 

[soundchaser59]

Just like I thought, not a one of you can determine what tracks the 3630 was used on those mp3's.

I discount all you guys judgment concerning this compressor! I mean, if it is so aweful, it should be quite obvious when it is in use right?

Thank You!

EXACTLY!!! If it were such an awful POS item, they wouldn't still be making them and selling them 25 years later.

 

[Lt. Bob]

As far as playing a song I don't like, I don't play songs I don't like. Why would anyone?

He would because he's a professional doing his job.
As for playing music for the wrong reasons ..... bullshit .... there's not a single person on the face of the Earth that loves playing more than me. My art is not wrapped up in any song or genre or style or type of playing. My art that I love is pure and simple, the maximum vituosity I can achieve of playing my axes. That's what you guys don't seem to understand ...... playing .... pure and simple ...... the greatest skill level I can achieve on my instruments. If you cut off anything from your skill set ....... then your skill set is lesser for it.
To use a different sort of example ....... what if you're a world class violinist that hates Beethoven? You gonna just refuse to play Beethoven symphonies when hired to do so? Not likely ..... and if you did ...... then you're lesser of a violinist and certainly less employed.
I can go play Miles Davis (and other deep jazz) all night long and, in fact, did so the last two nights. Thursday I was playing Lynard Skynard for bikers. In two weeks I'm be playing bass for 7 gigs with www.fiddlinjessy.com and it's gonna be *yeehaw!* country shit kickin music. And next week one of my gigs is gonna be with a guy that does old Americana blues material exclusively. The reason I can do all these gigs is that I can play the appropriate style at a high level in all genres. Ya'll act like somehow that must mean I don't really like any of them and am just going thru the motions.
On the contrary, I like the hell out of all of them and love the fact that I don't have to do the same crap every night.
Locking in on a particular style to the exclusion of anything else ........to me THAT'S boring.
I suppose it's a matter of way different perspectives ..... mostly everyone around here gets excited if they have a gig coming up next month ... "if we do good we might be back" and in a good month maybe they'll do 3 or 4 if that. I gig a bunch ..... 2 a day during bikeweek this month and absolutely never less than 5 a week, often 7 or 8 counting daytime resort gigs.
I see people ask how you can make money at music ..... well the answer is to open up and learn something besides just what you like to diddle around on.
But you don't want to lose your love of playing and the only way to maintain your joy of playing is to learn to actually like everything.
If you want to be the very best player you can be (as I do) ..... if you hope to maybe even be among the very best there is .... the only way to do that is to play all the time ...... and there is no way to play all the time unless you can make a living at it because otherwise you have to have a day job which all by itself means you can't play all the time.
There's never a day that goes by that I don't play at least 4 hours, often 6 to 8 hours ...... every single day ... week after week ..... month after month ..... year after year ... for 40 years now and that translates into skills.
And I still get excited about every single gig and I still put my all into every note that I put out there. That's why I play at as a high level as I do and for me, that's the reward.
Ya'll can do or believe what you will and I won't post on this anymore but the difference between someone that can produce quality work without getting all pissy over whether he likes a tune or not is the difference between an amateur and a professional. Hell, what about those great session players that some of you like so much. They didn't get to be able to walk in and play on anything required of them by refusing to play stuff they didn't like earlier in their careers.
I can, however, see the argument that some might not want to be pro if that's what it takes and that's cool.
But I make 40 to 50k a year just playing and though that's not a lot of money for professional buisinessmen ..... for a working musician it's enormous; so there's got to be a reason why I continue to do so at my age. And there's also got to be a reason why bands like Jessy's will come to town needing someone to learn 80 unfamiliar songs with no rehearsal and get referred to me. Because everyone knows that I can and will do it.
I have exactly 5 evenings available to me to learn all these songs and I'll be expected to play them pretty flawlessly the first night and I will though that's about as big a load as I think I can do.
I'm not exactly passionate about this stuff 'cause on one level I don't really care whether ya'll play everything or specialize in a single song or even if you all play at all.
But part of what we're here to do is spread knowledge and I have an insane amount of knowledge concerning live performance and how to make a living doing this while still continuing to love it and I see people here all the time wanting to know how they can do that.
If no one wants to know then fine.

 

[SonicAlbert]

If no one wants to know then fine.

I'm sure many people here want to know what it takes to make a living at music. This last post of your's is really one of your best, in my opinion. You described very well the mindset of a working musician, one who will get hired repeatedly. I'm not surprised at all that you work a lot with a great attitude and work ethic like that.

The ones that work are the ones that show up early, are ready to play great on time, are prepared, and frankly get along with the other players. Not everybody has to be best friends or even like one another, but there's a professional etiquette that the best players follow that keep the scene cool for everyone.

While I get your point about playing whatever is available and still being a good musician, I do still absolutely maitain that the best musicians take great pains to play the best instrument they possibly can afford. If that's a plastic sax, then so be it. But you can bet that as soon as he could afford a better instrument he bought one, and was a heck of a lot happier playing it.

I work with many of the top musicians here in Los Angeles, and they all take pride in their playing *and* their instruments. Nobody shows up with a second rate ax, out of love of art, and also because they know the next guy is going to show up with a great ax. Part of being a working musician is providing yourself with the best quality tools for your job.

This varies with the type of music, however. If your playing hillbilly music then you don't need the same level instrument you do to record the John William's score to a major motion picture. Unless of course there is a hillybilly cue in the score and then you want the real deal. Same with a symphony orchestra, you don't want them playing plastic cellos. It doesn't matter if it's Yo-Yo Ma playing, if it's a plastic cello on that repertoire it is going to be compromised.

I make a living as a freelance pianist/keyboardist/composer, and am very familiar with having to make the best of compromised pianos, sound systems, etc. That is indeed part of the job. But working with the best possible instruments is always a positive for everyone concerned.

 

[travelin travis]

It's a good thing people in Florida can cuss so well......I'd never understand them otherwise.... all communication would just break down without it.

I'm white trash. What do you expect from me?

Don't get me wrong Bob. I keep an open ear to all styles but a crap song is a crap song and same goes for a crap rig. Garbage in garbage out right? Ime, a lot of paying gigs expect some shit swallowing done with a smile. Flexibility = compromise of music, gear, whatever it may be. I've seen a lot of live bands and maybe a half dozen of those are burned in my mind. Those bands had talent, used good gear, and played what they wanted to. I think it's amazing that you can learn 80 songs in 5 days but honestly how much are you compromising by doing so?

 

[Ford Van]

Mp3's are EXTREMELY bad things to use for critical listening purposes so I didn't even bother. Ipod/headphones while exercising? sure.....The 3630 isn't that bad if you use it to shave a few db off of something at a low ratio..and a definatley a background track...put it on the lead vox or guitar cracking 10 db and you will puke.. distortion, pumping, loss of high freq come screaming out at you...so use it to learn..you can't beat free! hold on to it..if you ever get a high end comp do an a/b on the same source and a light bulb will come on over your head ...no serious rooms I have ever seen have a 3630..

Cheers,
Ray

Fair enough.

I will give you a hint on one of the tracks it is one on the Secret Heart mp3. It is an "upfront" track, and it did a LOT more than a "few db" of gain reduction with a low ratio!

We use mp3's all the time to judge audio! But, if you think you have the ears, I can post a .wav file too, and then you will hear that there isn't much difference, and FAR from enough difference to say a 3630 sucks now that you are listening to a .wav.

Listen guys, it is easy to bash on stuff. Fuck, I simply DETEST Mackie consoles! But, I NEVER let gear I don't like detract me from doing good work!

In fact, here is some stuff I mixed on a Mackie 1202 and 1604 combined (the 1202's main outs were going to an aux return on the 1604) so I could mix 24 tracks. Yes, I think I could have cleared up some more things with a better eq, but I think I was more limited by lack of compression (only 3 channels total, and all crap! A dbx 266 on the lead vocal!!!).

http://www.phoenixlightandsound.com/Audio/Silky

So, basically, I am not buying that you cannot do good work with a 3630. If you can't, you are the type that will always blame your instrument for why you cannot pull of any song well.

 

[Lt. Bob]

...working with the best possible instruments is always a positive for everyone concerned.

Absolutely .....no argument on that here.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I think it's amazing that you can learn 80 songs in 5 days but honestly how much are you compromising by doing so?

I'm not sure what you mean. Compromise? In what way? ..... the fact that I'm willing to just learn these songs because that's the ones they want me to learn? Well ..... that's what they're paying me for.
Compromise as far as my playing goes? Never ..... I take playing very seriously and fully expect that I'll be one of the best bassists they've ever used even on the first night and by the last gig I should be playing all those tunes pretty much perfectly ..... with feeling and dynamics and a good sense of the emotion they're each meant to convey.
Truly, I'm not sure what you mean by any compromises you're referring to.

 

[travelin travis]

I mean the quality of the performance Bob. If you can listen to a song only a couple of times and be ready to perform it at your best, you might be superman or something.

 

[soundchaser59]

I mean the quality of the performance Bob. If you can listen to a song only a couple of times and be ready to perform it at your best, you might be superman or something.

That's what 40 years of doing nothing but playing music for a living does to a person. You dont have to be superman, the experience just shows after a few years of doing it day in and day out...

The players in the Tonight Show Band are the same way, they just get a little more money for it. But if you heard them do the same thing Bob is doing, using the same songs Bob is playing, you wouldn't think they are compromising any quality at all.

 

[travelin travis]

That's what 40 years of doing nothing but playing music for a living does to a person. You dont have to be superman, the experience just shows after a few years of doing it day in and day out...

The players in the Tonight Show Band are the same way, they just get a little more money for it. But if you heard them do the same thing Bob is doing, using the same songs Bob is playing, you wouldn't think they are compromising any quality at all.

Come one man. The Tonight Show Band? That stuff sounds like elevator music. How exciting is that?

 

[Back stage]

superman? no ! A talentant musician, yes ! I remember back in the day's getting calls for one week playing the blues, next week rock,next week r&b amd having to learn the act whole show. But back when the 3630 first came out it was a must have for all studios, and it was'nt $99.00 back then. I to have seen at least one in the rack of some million dollars and more control rooms. But, Bob you are right, to play for the love of it and make $ 50Gs is great!!!

 

[Lt. Bob]

I mean the quality of the performance Bob. If you can listen to a song only a couple of times and be ready to perform it at your best, you might be superman or something.

Not really .... I mean, maybe you don't believe me about how much I play or maybe you think it's an exxageration and I understand if that's the case since I'm just text on a screen but the truth is, as best I can figure it, I have actually played around 11,000 gigs give or take 300 or so. Since 1969 there has hardly been any nights that I didn't play out and at least half of it was 'hired gun' work like I'm talking about here so playing well with minimal preparation is a learned skill like any other. Just take a second and really digest how much that means I've played. If your posted age is right ..... then that means 11 years before you were born I was playing every night ..... when you were born and your first toddler years I was playing every single night ..... all thru elementary scholl and then jr high and then high school every night of all those years that you've lived .... that whole time that you feel is such a long time ..... I was gigging virtually everynight. In 1984 when they had the Worlds' Fair in New Orleans I did 3 gigs a day. One at 11:00 am and another at 4:00pm on the Wonderwall and then drove back to Baton Rouge for my nightly gig. I've just done it more than is easily grasped unless you really stop and think about it a bit. It actually amazes me when I look back on it and see how totally music has ruled my life.
Basically 40 years of constantly playing. I am not exxagerating when I say that I'm put more hours into playing my axes than about anyone you'll ever run into ....... really many, many times the hours of the vast majority of players. Maybe that makes me stupid, that I've so totally dedicated my life to this but that's the case nevertheless.
Yes ..... 80 songs is a stretch which, I believe I already mentioned, but not undoable for me. The fact is ..... a lot of gigs I'll not have a chance to do any preparation ..... it's just a matter of showing up and hanging on and I can do that too. Actually, I could do this gig without any preparation at all if I had to. I do it all the time and I don't really know how to explain it but I know that next chord coming up before it gets there .... even on peoples' original stuff.
But I want to do extra good on this gig so I'm actually sitting down and picking up my ax for a few evenings which is rare for me. I normally just listen to a CD as I drive around and that's sufficient ..... I'll make a few small errors the first night but nothing worse than an average player who already knows the songs ..... second night I make only a couple of mistakes and third night I'll pretty much nail everything.
But I want to nail everything the first night here so I'm going a little further than usual.
And I'm not the only guy that can do that ..... I knew plenty of them back in Baton Rouge and New Orleans. And the guitarist that'll be doing this country gig with us is doing the exact same thing. I talked to him today and he wasn't gonna get around to listening to the CD until this weekend. Of course ..... if the bass player (me! ) knows the song then any good guitarist can follow so the pressure's on me but still, he's doing the same thing as I am.
And just so you know, I don't really feel any pressure here ....... I've done this so many times that it doesn't stress me out 'cause it's just what I do.
I don't know what you do for a living but if it's something you've been doing a long time then it's like that ...... I don't even think about it ..... I just do it.
Most of the time if you came up and asked me what key I'm in if I'm playing sax I don't even know. I'll have to stop and think about it ....... I don't really think about playing too much anymore ..... it's more like talking or walking for me ..... I just do it.

I apologize for derailing the thread ...... I was just trying to make the point that if what you have is a 3630 then do the best with it you can and don't just throw it away ..... anything that's not broken can be useful.