3 practice amps to gig with?

  • Thread starter Thread starter tminusmat
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I can agree with most everyone.From my experiences as a musician i learned the hard way by starting out with a full stack and having way too much stage volume.Couldn't hear everyone else and played poorly.After a few gigs i learned to just keep it to a half stack and to turn my cab slightly towards the drummer.After investing in a small pa i learned the other side.

I'm not a great sound engineer but learned to try and get the most out of a 1700 watt sound system.When you don't have a lot of power to work with it's really hard to get your vocals over a guitarist who insists on playing on ten.On more then one occasion i've asked people from an opening band to turn down a bit so i could get a good mix.I'd be nice and explain that i had a small system and they were overpowering the vocals without even being in the mix.

Of course then it was my fault that everything sounded bad.I wasn't doing it for money just for my own band on the occasions when we needed to bring our own pa.Of course then there's the headache of loading,unloading ,setting everything up and tearing everything back down.I ended up putting in three times the amount of work than the the rest of my band and most times it all went totally unappreciated and taken for granted.

Not trying to sound bitter but their can be so much more work to doing sound than folks realise.It's a lot more than just turning knobs.A sound man will know their system and what it's capable of so a little bit of cooperation can go a long way.
 
mcmetal said:
...Of course then there's the headache of loading,unloading ,setting everything up and tearing everything back down.I ended up putting in three times the amount of work than the the rest of my band and most times it all went totally unappreciated and taken for granted.

Not trying to sound bitter but their can be so much more work to doing sound than folks realise.It's a lot more than just turning knobs.A sound man will know their system and what it's capable of so a little bit of cooperation can go a long way.
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Heh heh... Been there. It sucks. Setting up a system and tearing it down, load in and load out, for a single gig is crazy. But I do it all the time because I love this stuff.

But it would be a good thing for people to understand a little better what is involved. For me, a single gig involves the same amount of work as moving into, and out of, a college dorm in the same night. I'm lucky because the band's been together about seven years and over a hundred gigs - everyone knows the drill and I have the help I need.
 
mcmetal said:
Of course then there's the headache of loading,unloading ,setting everything up and tearing everything back down.I ended up putting in three times the amount of work than the the rest of my band and most times it all went totally unappreciated and taken for granted.

Not trying to sound bitter but their can be so much more work to doing sound than folks realise.It's a lot more than just turning knobs.A sound man will know their system and what it's capable of so a little bit of cooperation can go a long way.
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I feel your pain. I remember many very late nights unloading my van long after the rest of the band was home in bed. Nowadays, Homie don' play dat.

The (somewhat arrogant) lead singer in one band I was in once told me, "You know, I am every bit as good a sound man as you; I just don't know anything about setting up the system. Hey! What the hell did I say that was so damn funny?" :D
 
for once I sorta agree with the Toker.
In small clubs I very rarely see really good soundmen.

I'm not dissing soundmen as a good one makes life a wonderful thing. Really ..... when you have a good soundman the gig gets so freakin' easy you can have a ball ..... I love it.

But nowadays it seems like anyone who knows a lot about electronics and wiring is a soundman wereas being a GOOD soundman is more of an art ..... using your ears like a good engineer in the studio. Not everyone can do that and most locales I've played in don't have enough of the good ones to fill the smaller venues. The good ones get picked up by the larger places.

But it is what it is ..... you HAVE to get along with them and do the best you can to get things aimed in the direction you want them.
Arguing sure isn't gonna do it.
In the situation described by the OP, there's simply no alternative to mic'ing up the Champ so that's what he'll have to do. The idea of adding the other 2 small amps to the mix is not a good one. It won't make much difference stage-volumewise and it'll just add things you're unfamiliar with to have to deal with.
 
Wow, a mention of the OP...

I am a semi-pro sound man, and usually serve as road dog and stage manager, along the way... I do it because I enjoy putting on a show, and learning a new skill. I am fortunate in that I have two experienced, knowledable men as mentors and resources- my choir director's husband (who has a BS in Theatre production) and my son, who IS a pro sound man. I can go to either of them, even place a call, to get a question answered, a solution offered, or even sometimes another brain/eye/hand/back for the event.

As for the longer hours- amen, brother! But I have learned ways of getting my band mates to pitch in.
 
stevieb said:
But I have learned ways of getting my band mates to pitch in.
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"Dude you sounded great tonight!"
"Let me buy you a beer"
"Could you just help me load up these speakers first?"
"My wallet is in the van anyway";)
 
The OP should mic the champ.Depending on the monitor set-up if the drummer or bass player needs to be able to hear him better he could always use a splitter and run one of the smaller amps as a small monitor.The drummer can dial in whatever volume suits him.If they have a good monitor set-up then i wouldn't worry about but it's always a good thing to be prepared.

A splitter and a long cord won't break the bank and won't take up much space either.Better to bring one just in case.I remember a show i did once when out of the blue my pedal board went funky.Luckily i always carried a spare distortion pedal in my guitar case.
 
Yonce N Mild said:
"Dude you sounded great tonight!"
"Let me buy you a beer"
"Could you just help me load up these speakers first?"
"My wallet is in the van anyway";)
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Those work for a while, but then they get wise to you and come up with dodging responses:

"Dude you sounded great tonight!"
No way, man; I sucked!

"Let me buy you a beer"
Uh, I quit drinkin'.

"Could you just help me load up these speakers first?"
Sorry, man, I hurt my back.

"My wallet is in the van anyway"
That's OK, I'll buy you a beer.

:D
 
ggunn said:
Those work for a while, but then they get wise to you and come up with dodging responses:

"Dude you sounded great tonight!"
No way, man; I sucked!

"Let me buy you a beer"
Uh, I quit drinkin'.

"Could you just help me load up these speakers first?"
Sorry, man, I hurt my back.

"My wallet is in the van anyway"
That's OK, I'll buy you a beer.

:D
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How about... NO ONE IS FUCKIN LEAVING UNTIL WE GET THIS SHIT LOADED UP:mad:

:cool:
 
Roguetitan said:
How about... NO ONE IS FUCKIN LEAVING UNTIL WE GET THIS SHIT LOADED UP:mad:
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If you're packin' heat that might work...:rolleyes:

But seriously, the guys I play with now are (mostly) really good about that. My last band, though, were notorious for skeedattling right after the gig. The horn players were the worst. Horn in case and out the door in one smooth motion.
 
ggunn said:
If you're packin' heat that might work...:rolleyes:

But seriously, the guys I play with now are (mostly) really good about that. My last band, though, were notorious for skeedattling right after the gig. The horn players were the worst. Horn in case and out the door in one smooth motion.
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that is why you hold band meetings to make sure everyone is on the same page about loading in and out.
aint no body here got a roadie crew and no one is any more important than the next guy so everyone helps until the work is done.

if they don't want to help setup and tear down they can be replaced.
simple as that:)
that is just the way we roll around here, every body helping each other with the hard stuff so we can get to the fun faster.:D
 
You guys all owe tminusmat some rep for starting all this. Help a newb out!
 
Roguetitan said:
that is why you hold band meetings to make sure everyone is on the same page about loading in and out.
aint no body here got a roadie crew and no one is any more important than the next guy so everyone helps until the work is done.

if they don't want to help setup and tear down they can be replaced.
simple as that:)
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Well, that's the ideal, but reality sometimes differs. The inequitable division of labor was just one of the reasons I quit that band. It's a moot point now.
 
new here, and I was reading this, very interesting, one thing though 25 watts of tube power may be enough even to play larger venues live, I have a 25 watt mesa, and it screams I've never had the opportunity to turn it up over 9 o clock, though I've tried, often met by swift rebuke from sound men, I used to play a 5 watt head through a 2X12 cab miced up for about 150 person crowd more than loud enough, also the quieter your guitar amp is on stage the louder it can be in the mix, meaning the more people will hear it. If everyone is so concerned with hearing themselves so much then in ears should be the next thing on your list of things to buy. At least in my experience if you move around as much as I do on stage without in ears your not going to be able to hear yourself everywhere you go.
stevieb i have to radically disagree with your statement of leaving the tubes at home, there to me is nothing worse than going to see a band play, and there playing terrible sounding amps which they do not know how to work. Im sure its a lot easier for you to amplify a good sound and make it sound good, than to make a bad sound bearable. Not saying that all solid state amps sound terrible, just saying there are a lot more good sounding tube amps than there are solid state amps, especially when playing clean stuff,
my 2 cents
 
Seriously thank you guys very much!!!! This discussion has made me a better performer for sure.

I do need to upgrade my amp but I will be fine with the 25 watter this gig. I will let everyone know how it goes and what the advice lead to!!

I will ask the sound guy to mic not peg into the rp 90. From rehearsels recently it seems that pulling the amp up higher aimed toward the face and slightly toward the drummer works well. And right now I have it set at 5 for the volume. And I run clean and use the rp90 for effects and amp mods.

I cannot tell you how much I learned from this post. And I will go through and give everyone some props soon!!

Mat
 
marshallpk89 said:
new here, and I was reading this, very interesting, one thing though 25 watts of tube power may be enough even to play larger venues live, I have a 25 watt mesa, and it screams I've never had the opportunity to turn it up over 9 o clock, though I've tried, often met by swift rebuke from sound men, I used to play a 5 watt head through a 2X12 cab miced up for about 150 person crowd more than loud enough, also the quieter your guitar amp is on stage the louder it can be in the mix, meaning the more people will hear it. If everyone is so concerned with hearing themselves so much then in ears should be the next thing on your list of things to buy. At least in my experience if you move around as much as I do on stage without in ears your not going to be able to hear yourself everywhere you go.
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without a doubt 25 watts is enough forlarge venues with a good mixing console and plenty of power amps and drivers
Ya we are currently ampless and using IEM's with a dedicated rack console for the IEM's, we are using amp modelers DI to the mixer and it all works out very nicely.
no worries of monitors and amps feeding back and a lot less setup/tear down time. we don't even mik the drums any more. they are all triggered including the cymbals.
if we do find we need some stage volume we will put a couple of wedges aimed towards the croud and put everyone except the drums through them.
 
Roguetitan said:
without a doubt 25 watts is enough forlarge venues with a good mixing console and plenty of power amps and drivers
Ya we are currently ampless and using IEM's with a dedicated rack console for the IEM's, we are using amp modelers DI to the mixer and it all works out very nicely.
no worries of monitors and amps feeding back and a lot less setup/tear down time. we don't even mik the drums any more. they are all triggered including the cymbals.
if we do find we need some stage volume we will put a couple of wedges aimed towards the croud and put everyone except the drums through them.
Click to expand...

Yeah i always hated amp-less rigs, they just don't have the same sound or feel as a driven speaker, but they definitely have there place, 0 stage noise which is a sound mans dream, if I had the money I would try out an isocab or a isolation box, so that i could really crank my amp and still have relatively no noise,

however saying that modeling has come a long way in the last couple years, my particular favorite is the vox tonelab, but the pods are starting to get really good as well
 
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