3:1 Clarification

[mshilarious]

he talks about it in that link corban gave us.

and really, if you guys think about it....the 3:1 rule IS for both a single or double source.

True, it will work for either situation. However, with a single source, it isn't mandatory because you can control the level of the distant mic independent of distance: just pull its fader down.

With two sources on two mics, you can't do that, because you'd be affecting the level of the primary source in each mic. Therefore you have to rely on distance.

 

[mixsit]

The following is copied directly from "Modern Recording Techniques, Fifth Edition" by David Miles Huber & Robert E. Runstein...
...This principle states that in order to maintain phase integrity ... "

IMHO the problem with this little bit of text is that it while it tells 'what, it's missleading as to 'why. The distance is simply there to atenuate the phase effects. It's not an alignment fix.
Wayne

 

[FALKEN]

now that that's settled, im going to hijack this one, and point it to the obvious question raised:

how do you avoid phase with two mics on one source?
like, say, a guitar amp, or a drumset.

I have just been moving mine around till they sound acceptable, but it seems like certain frequencies will always be out of phase.

 

[boingoman]

:

how do you avoid phase with two mics on one source?
like, say, a guitar amp, or a drumset.

I have just been moving mine around till they sound acceptable, but it seems like certain frequencies will always be out of phase.

There are probably more detailed ways of saying it, but you are already doing essentially the best thing, and you are right, something is always going to be out of phase if you mic one source with two mics at different distances.

I know certain people have certain things they do involving the math, and then they just kind of eyeball and earball the distance.

 

[mixsit]

There are probably more detailed ways of saying it, but you are already doing essentially the best thing, and you are right, something is always going to be out of phase if you mic one source with two mics at different distances.

I tend to believe that also, although there is this Aarron Carey' method to find the spot. But I suspect there's only one completely clean one, and that would be equidistant/equal time.
Check these out.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=151112
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=150316

 

[corban]

First off the rule is for two mics (or more) and two sources (or more). It isn't really applicable for two mics on a single source. If you do the near/far mic thing on a single source, and increase the level of the far mic to match the near, yes, you can have phase cancellation. Nothing will prevent that IF you match levels, regardless of distance, 3:1, less, or more. If you leave the far mic down -9dB or more, you won't be able to discern the phase problem; it might even sound musical.

Thanks Harvey and MS, that's what I thought. Freak1c, I agree that it's basic and everything, all the more reason to understand it properly. I was coming across a lot of people giving conflicting info on other threads, now if somebody needs to know about it they can do a search, find this thread, and not have to go through all the misleading info on the other threads.

 

[cordura21]

For 2 mics on 2 sources (like a guitar player who sings at the same tie)

I think it's easier to think about it like each source (voice and guitar ) are recorded with 2 different mics at the same time, and the other source's mic is this source's "ambient" or secondary mic.