Prism
New member
Something else has me wondering...
Musician's Friend has the AT3525 for like, 300 bucks, and I think zZounds has it for 200. Odd.
Isaiah
Musician's Friend has the AT3525 for like, 300 bucks, and I think zZounds has it for 200. Odd.
Isaiah
T
The Axis
Member
Since I amt the worlds cheapest human being....er, make that THRIFTY, yeah, THRIFTY...I love to search for the low-prices. Almost anything you can think of, if you are patient and search the net for a couple weeks, you can find at about half the "going street price" which is already 2/3 of list price !
On the sound-room quality control: Sometimes there really is "value added service", but of course we also need to be appropriately skeptical. If the OKTAVA factory QC is so bad, why not just buy a different brand ? It is hard to believe that the same production line spits out Gems and Turds at random. On the other hand, if OKTAVA's design and construction really is good, it makes double the price seem like a high price to pay for weeding out the few bad ones, which should be covered by warranty anyway.
Just opinions.
On the sound-room quality control: Sometimes there really is "value added service", but of course we also need to be appropriately skeptical. If the OKTAVA factory QC is so bad, why not just buy a different brand ? It is hard to believe that the same production line spits out Gems and Turds at random. On the other hand, if OKTAVA's design and construction really is good, it makes double the price seem like a high price to pay for weeding out the few bad ones, which should be covered by warranty anyway.
Just opinions.
S
skweeks
New member
recording engineer from this board vouches that the SR Oktava mic's are worth the extra and if you search this message board for 'oktava' and other posts about <$1000 large diafram condensors you'll find him saying repeatedly that the oktava's from the SR are the best / a good choice for the money and giving reasons as to why to buy from the SR... as far as everyone here knows, he does not work for the SR and i have no reason not to believe him
T
The Axis
Member
skweeks: My comments are not intended to disparage the opinions of RE or anyone else. The Sound Room probably really DOES weed out the bad ones.
But then that does imply that we believe OKTAVA's QC is really bad and they really do spit out Gems and Turds randomly.
Who wants what looks like a gem that might have turd solder joints go bad in six months ?
And if they are randomly Turd/Gems, is it really worth DOUBLE the price to have someone throw out the Turds ?
On the other hand, if they are MOSTLY GOOD, then it should be easy to listen to a couple at any other dealer and verify that they sound OK. I seriously doubt that OKTAVA has one produktion line set up to produce Gems and one set up to produce Turds specifically for Guitar Center.
You decide, I only point out the points of logic.
Peace,
Rick
But then that does imply that we believe OKTAVA's QC is really bad and they really do spit out Gems and Turds randomly.
Who wants what looks like a gem that might have turd solder joints go bad in six months ?
And if they are randomly Turd/Gems, is it really worth DOUBLE the price to have someone throw out the Turds ?
On the other hand, if they are MOSTLY GOOD, then it should be easy to listen to a couple at any other dealer and verify that they sound OK. I seriously doubt that OKTAVA has one produktion line set up to produce Gems and one set up to produce Turds specifically for Guitar Center.
You decide, I only point out the points of logic.
Peace,
Rick
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Here's The Logic; Really Facts
Yes, the quality control of Oktava is REALLY bad. Actually it's SO GOOD that there are SO MANY rejects that they sell 'em to places like Guitar Center.
Yes, the quality control of Oktava is REALLY bad. Actually it's SO GOOD that there are SO MANY rejects that they sell 'em to places like Guitar Center.
T
The Axis
Member
If it is logic that we are talking about:
Why then would a company like OKTAVA destroy its own reputation by selling "rejects" to a major nationwide chain under its own name, and only sell the "gems" to a single obscure outlet ? Totally violates common sense.
Logic dictates that there are much more easily invisioned reasons for this situation.
But your opinion is just as good as mine.
Peace,
Rick
Why then would a company like OKTAVA destroy its own reputation by selling "rejects" to a major nationwide chain under its own name, and only sell the "gems" to a single obscure outlet ? Totally violates common sense.
Logic dictates that there are much more easily invisioned reasons for this situation.
But your opinion is just as good as mine.
Peace,
Rick
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
A Matter Of Logic Or Culture?
You must take into account of your logic that the East usually has quite a different logic than the West when it comes to business in general.
In here in the West, it is usually preferable to sell low quantity of high quality. In the East, it is usually preferable to sell high quantity of low quality.
It's a matter of how the business views the veiws of its target audience. Or really, MONEY!
Think about it. Where are most Western "Made In America" "microphone" companies having their mics made? China. Why? It's mass-production for cheap!Another "American company"'s mics are from Australia.
So what do you have? Happy "American companies", looking like the "good guys" selling mics which say "Made In Amercica" and/or even "Assembled In America" on them because maybe they changed the housing or something. And you have happy Eastern companies looking like "bad guys" in the eyes of consumer america. But the happy Eastern companies don't give a damn because they're still making money because consumer america is buying "Made In America" products that they made. A constant high demand and a constant high supply...
So EVERYONE'S happy!!!
It's like this in ALL industries.
High quanity of low quality? Sounds like Guitar Center all the way...! Why do you think Oktava is doing business with GC? They both have the same logic.
By the way, http://www.oktava.net is the worldwide distributor for Oktava...
If you really want to know the absolute "real deal", I suggest you contact Taylor Johnson at The Sound Room. After talking to him, you'll absolutely know he's talking the best of his knowledge of the difference between the Oktavas sold by him at The Sound Room, A&F McKay Audio LTD, Guitar Center, and the likes.
There IS a difference.
Hell, I talked to Taylor on the phone for over a half hour with him telling me all he knew about all of Oktava's history.
You must take into account of your logic that the East usually has quite a different logic than the West when it comes to business in general.
In here in the West, it is usually preferable to sell low quantity of high quality. In the East, it is usually preferable to sell high quantity of low quality.
It's a matter of how the business views the veiws of its target audience. Or really, MONEY!
Think about it. Where are most Western "Made In America" "microphone" companies having their mics made? China. Why? It's mass-production for cheap!Another "American company"'s mics are from Australia.
So what do you have? Happy "American companies", looking like the "good guys" selling mics which say "Made In Amercica" and/or even "Assembled In America" on them because maybe they changed the housing or something. And you have happy Eastern companies looking like "bad guys" in the eyes of consumer america. But the happy Eastern companies don't give a damn because they're still making money because consumer america is buying "Made In America" products that they made. A constant high demand and a constant high supply...
So EVERYONE'S happy!!!
It's like this in ALL industries.
High quanity of low quality? Sounds like Guitar Center all the way...! Why do you think Oktava is doing business with GC? They both have the same logic.
By the way, http://www.oktava.net is the worldwide distributor for Oktava...
If you really want to know the absolute "real deal", I suggest you contact Taylor Johnson at The Sound Room. After talking to him, you'll absolutely know he's talking the best of his knowledge of the difference between the Oktavas sold by him at The Sound Room, A&F McKay Audio LTD, Guitar Center, and the likes.
There IS a difference.
Hell, I talked to Taylor on the phone for over a half hour with him telling me all he knew about all of Oktava's history.
A
ametth
Sir Cool of Coronado
The Axis said:
They're not 'destroying their own reputation'...I know RE speaks the truth, and Rick, I've talked to tatlor myself too and numerous other people on this very topic. The reason Oktava sells through Guitar Center is what RE said, high quantity sells. Face it, when you buy from guitar center your not exactly buying high quality stuff (apart from a few things they have), and people will buy anything and thinks it suonds good. There are a few mics that they sell there that people swear by, I wont mention any names, but I think these mics suck. People have been blinded by the hype.
ametth
dobro
Well-known member
"Why then would a company like OKTAVA destroy its own
reputation by selling "rejects" to a major nationwide chain under
its own name, and only sell the "gems" to a single obscure outlet
? Totally violates common sense."
Well, if they're selling mics to *both* these companies, Oktava probably think they're doing great business in the states - all sorts of companies are lapping up their mics, no matter what kind of QC they employ. Or don't employ.
Pass the vodka.
reputation by selling "rejects" to a major nationwide chain under
its own name, and only sell the "gems" to a single obscure outlet
? Totally violates common sense."
Well, if they're selling mics to *both* these companies, Oktava probably think they're doing great business in the states - all sorts of companies are lapping up their mics, no matter what kind of QC they employ. Or don't employ.
Pass the vodka.
T
The Axis
Member
Just to clarify: Some of you seem to have misinterpreted my comments:
ME: "Why then would a company like OKTAVA destroy its own reputation by selling....."
They wouldn't ! I asked the question to show that it is preposterous. So I agree with you ametth. Conclusion : The GC mics and the SR mics come from the same production line, with the same QC.
I also agree with DOBRO when he says:
"Well, if they're selling mics to *both* these companies, Oktava probably think they're doing great business in the states - all sorts of companies are lapping up their mics, no matter what kind of QC they employ. Or don't employ. "
Yes. OKTAVA wants to sell lots of mikes. They don't waste time pulling out gems for SR and selling only turds to GC.
Conclusion (again): The GC mics and the SR mics come from the same production line, with the same QC.
So in every case, the idea that the GC mikes are fundamentally any different than the sound room mikes is unfounded EXCEPT for any additional QC that the Sound Room imposes. That is fine. They probably REALLY DO weed out the turds. Then they charge you twice as much. But if you get a "good" OKTAVA from the GC, it is IDENTICAL to a "good" mike from the sound room. Maybe if you are buying mail order, this extra service is worth it to you.
I have no affiliation with GC, and have no reason to defend them. I hardly ever buy anything there because they are completely on the other side of my city. I also have nothing against the Sound Room. I'm sure they are great guys that really do provide a valuable service by weeding out turds. But the fact remains that a "good" mike from an identical assembly line is the same from either store.
For that matter, the idea that Turds and Gems might come from randomly from a production line is the very reason that most westrn manufacturers and a lot of reputable Asian manufacturers impose ISO 9000 Quality Standards. It make the idea of buying a good old Shure, AKG, or AT (Neumann...etc.) sound a lot more attractive. Why piss around at all with a factory that has POOR QC ! It is probably because we are hoping to get a bargain. But from what I've seen, the OKTAVA's just really aren't any superior to the other brands, and if you pay double for them. then they aren't any cheaper either. Many people say "I bought mine from the Sound Room, and it was great !" That is fine and true, but that does not imply that one from GC is NOT great. Especially if you listen to it ahead of time. And if you get a bad one from GC, just take it back ! I don't think the Sound Room does vibration, shock, and burn-in testing on the mikes, so the real test is how it holds up over the warranty period.
You be the judge.
Rick
ME: "Why then would a company like OKTAVA destroy its own reputation by selling....."
They wouldn't ! I asked the question to show that it is preposterous. So I agree with you ametth. Conclusion : The GC mics and the SR mics come from the same production line, with the same QC.
I also agree with DOBRO when he says:
"Well, if they're selling mics to *both* these companies, Oktava probably think they're doing great business in the states - all sorts of companies are lapping up their mics, no matter what kind of QC they employ. Or don't employ. "
Yes. OKTAVA wants to sell lots of mikes. They don't waste time pulling out gems for SR and selling only turds to GC.
Conclusion (again): The GC mics and the SR mics come from the same production line, with the same QC.
So in every case, the idea that the GC mikes are fundamentally any different than the sound room mikes is unfounded EXCEPT for any additional QC that the Sound Room imposes. That is fine. They probably REALLY DO weed out the turds. Then they charge you twice as much. But if you get a "good" OKTAVA from the GC, it is IDENTICAL to a "good" mike from the sound room. Maybe if you are buying mail order, this extra service is worth it to you.
I have no affiliation with GC, and have no reason to defend them. I hardly ever buy anything there because they are completely on the other side of my city. I also have nothing against the Sound Room. I'm sure they are great guys that really do provide a valuable service by weeding out turds. But the fact remains that a "good" mike from an identical assembly line is the same from either store.
For that matter, the idea that Turds and Gems might come from randomly from a production line is the very reason that most westrn manufacturers and a lot of reputable Asian manufacturers impose ISO 9000 Quality Standards. It make the idea of buying a good old Shure, AKG, or AT (Neumann...etc.) sound a lot more attractive. Why piss around at all with a factory that has POOR QC ! It is probably because we are hoping to get a bargain. But from what I've seen, the OKTAVA's just really aren't any superior to the other brands, and if you pay double for them. then they aren't any cheaper either. Many people say "I bought mine from the Sound Room, and it was great !" That is fine and true, but that does not imply that one from GC is NOT great. Especially if you listen to it ahead of time. And if you get a bad one from GC, just take it back ! I don't think the Sound Room does vibration, shock, and burn-in testing on the mikes, so the real test is how it holds up over the warranty period.
You be the judge.
Rick
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Yeah
"The GC mics and the SR mics come from the same production line, with the same QC."
Absolutely true. However, The Sound Room (Taylor Johnson) fully tests the mics he orders to make sure they are "up to par". The ones that "make the cut" are sold through the Sound Room. The ones that don't are sent back to Oktava in Russia. Oktava then turns around and sell them to places such as Guitar Center and the likes.
"Yes. OKTAVA wants to sell lots of mikes. They don't waste time pulling out gems for SR and selling only turds to GC."
You're ABSOLUTELY correct! The Sound Room does!
And then if you buy a factory matched-pair from The Sound Room:
"Matched pairs are hand-selected from themanufacturing "floor" and tested in the anechoic chamber at the Oktava Microphone Labs. As with all of our microphones, they are chosen for high quality assembly and finish and then tested to meet specific acoustic and electronic modeling. Mics. in matched assemblies are tested individually and then as pairs. Once the matching is complete, they are boxed - along with proof of frequency response analysis. From there, the mics. are sent to our "sister" studio in Moscow, where they are tested and checked again in various acoustic source tests and further documentation is attached.
The mics that pass all these tests are shipped to the SOUND ROOM, where they are checked again in our studios and readied for shipment. This may include changing packing/shipping materiel, fitting to cedar boxes (manufactured in the Ozark Mountains of Missouri), final cosmetic checks and repackaging of the assorted documentation and new (US made) accessories."
-The Sound Room
There IS a difference.
"The GC mics and the SR mics come from the same production line, with the same QC."
Absolutely true. However, The Sound Room (Taylor Johnson) fully tests the mics he orders to make sure they are "up to par". The ones that "make the cut" are sold through the Sound Room. The ones that don't are sent back to Oktava in Russia. Oktava then turns around and sell them to places such as Guitar Center and the likes.
"Yes. OKTAVA wants to sell lots of mikes. They don't waste time pulling out gems for SR and selling only turds to GC."
You're ABSOLUTELY correct! The Sound Room does!
And then if you buy a factory matched-pair from The Sound Room:
"Matched pairs are hand-selected from themanufacturing "floor" and tested in the anechoic chamber at the Oktava Microphone Labs. As with all of our microphones, they are chosen for high quality assembly and finish and then tested to meet specific acoustic and electronic modeling. Mics. in matched assemblies are tested individually and then as pairs. Once the matching is complete, they are boxed - along with proof of frequency response analysis. From there, the mics. are sent to our "sister" studio in Moscow, where they are tested and checked again in various acoustic source tests and further documentation is attached.
The mics that pass all these tests are shipped to the SOUND ROOM, where they are checked again in our studios and readied for shipment. This may include changing packing/shipping materiel, fitting to cedar boxes (manufactured in the Ozark Mountains of Missouri), final cosmetic checks and repackaging of the assorted documentation and new (US made) accessories."
-The Sound Room
There IS a difference.
T
tdukex
Man of the Muse
Axis, not to get on your case or anything, but didn't we hash this out a while back?
First of all, the MC-012s for $280 at the Sound Room come with three caps: Omni, Cardioid, and Super Cardioid. The MC-012s for $150 at GC come with only the Cardioid cap--I was there and looked at them. I also looked at their ad. Just the addition of the Omni cap gives you double your value, as anyone can tell you.
Second, if you want you can buy an MC-012 from the Sound Room with only the Cardioid cap for $188, so comparing apples to apples you are not paying double.
Third, at $280 with three caps, a nice cedar case and the highest quality available, the Oktava MC-012 from the Sound Room held its own and often outperformed mics costing two and three times as much in the extensive Mic Shootout performed by Electronic Musician in March 2000 (I think that was the issue). For this reason, alone, the MC-012 from the Sound Room is one of the best mic bargains available anywhere.
And try this thread: https://homerecording.com/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000190.html
First of all, the MC-012s for $280 at the Sound Room come with three caps: Omni, Cardioid, and Super Cardioid. The MC-012s for $150 at GC come with only the Cardioid cap--I was there and looked at them. I also looked at their ad. Just the addition of the Omni cap gives you double your value, as anyone can tell you.
Second, if you want you can buy an MC-012 from the Sound Room with only the Cardioid cap for $188, so comparing apples to apples you are not paying double.
Third, at $280 with three caps, a nice cedar case and the highest quality available, the Oktava MC-012 from the Sound Room held its own and often outperformed mics costing two and three times as much in the extensive Mic Shootout performed by Electronic Musician in March 2000 (I think that was the issue). For this reason, alone, the MC-012 from the Sound Room is one of the best mic bargains available anywhere.
And try this thread: https://homerecording.com/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000190.html
T
The Axis
Member
RE, Ameth, TDukeX, and all....
Thanks, for the inputs. I really will try to take this all into consideration. To tell you the truth, I visited the Sound Room website, and I almost ordered a MC-O12 ! They really aren't that expensive, even if I might be able to get it a little cheaper elsewhere. I guess that's why its a discussion forum !
Peace,
Rick
Thanks, for the inputs. I really will try to take this all into consideration. To tell you the truth, I visited the Sound Room website, and I almost ordered a MC-O12 ! They really aren't that expensive, even if I might be able to get it a little cheaper elsewhere. I guess that's why its a discussion forum !
Peace,
Rick
R
Recording Engineer
Moderator
Glad You're Around Too
The only thing we can do is share what we "know" from our experiences...
The only thing we can do is share what we "know" from our experiences...
D
Dougie Johnson
New member
Being a fellow Taylor Johnson disciple, I have found this thread very interesting. Good questions from everyone here.
RE laid it out exactly as it is when dealing through the Sound Room. It is like buying a Mustang from a dealer (A good car), or a Shelby Mustang from a specialty shop (An awesome lean machine).
Taylor Johnson is the Carol Shelby of the microphone business.
RE laid it out exactly as it is when dealing through the Sound Room. It is like buying a Mustang from a dealer (A good car), or a Shelby Mustang from a specialty shop (An awesome lean machine).
Taylor Johnson is the Carol Shelby of the microphone business.