Be careful with resource-heavy plugins while tracking

[paperhatrecords]

I have a standard preset vocal chain I like to use and right at the top is Soothe (the De-Shadow preset cleans up the bottom of my voice nicely). I like to track with what has been done before relatively mixed and both Soothe and Spiff were used multiple times throughout the mix, on drums, bass, etc. I like to be able to mix down as soon as I am done tracking, with minor tweaks.

But when I started using the preset vocal chain while tracking, I started noticing audible timing issues. There was latency and I was singing in ways to compensate for it. I thought it was just my computer being slow or laggy.

It wasn't until I spent a long time trying to fix drum and percussion not synching up even though they looked basically perfect on the grid that I figured the problem out: I had a version of Soothe on the conga/percussion/drum machine bus and more Soothe and Spiff on the drums. When I removed them, voila, no more audible latency.

Then I realized it was likely Soothe in my vocal chain and elsewhere in the mix causing the tracking timing problems.

High CPU plugins should never be used while tracking. Stick with stock if you must use them at all. Lesson learned.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Good info to share!
What DAW were you using, though? Most I'm aware of automatically compensate for this.

ProTools, for example, has ADC - Automatic Delay Compensation, where if a plugin introduces X ms of latency it applies the same latency to all other tracks to keep playback sounding correct
then anything that you record under those circumstances is automatically offset on the timeline to compensate.

Maybe you've got that option but it's disabled?

 

[Papanate]

I have a standard preset vocal chain I like to use and right at the top is Soothe (the De-Shadow preset cleans up the bottom of my voice nicely). I like to track with what has been done before relatively mixed and both Soothe and Spiff were used multiple times throughout the mix, on drums, bass, etc. I like to be able to mix down as soon as I am done tracking, with minor tweaks.

But when I started using the preset vocal chain while tracking, I started noticing audible timing issues. There was latency and I was singing in ways to compensate for it. I thought it was just my computer being slow or laggy.

It wasn't until I spent a long time trying to fix drum and percussion not synching up even though they looked basically perfect on the grid that I figured the problem out: I had a version of Soothe on the conga/percussion/drum machine bus and more Soothe and Spiff on the drums. When I removed them, voila, no more audible latency.

Then I realized it was likely Soothe in my vocal chain and elsewhere in the mix causing the tracking timing problems.

High CPU plugins should never be used while tracking. Stick with stock if you must use them at all. Lesson learned.

Or you could Freeze the tracks if your computer couldn’t handle it.

 

[TalismanRich]

The problem is when you're working in real time. If you are monitoring with a significant delay, then your timing can be off. A few ms can be easily ignored. When you start getting into 50-100ms delay, then you definitely hear it. It's a situation where hardware would definitely have an advantage. Or a system like UA uses where things run inside the interface rather than in the computer. My Tascam interface has compression and EQ built in, so it doesn't introduce any latency that I can detect.

DAWs can't compensate for real time, unless it can read the future. DAW compensation merely adjusts the alignment of recorded tracks. It can't apply an effect before you sing the note. Likewise, you can't freeze a track that hasn't been recorded yet. My solution is to not use the plugin, although I know that things like adding reverb can make a singer feel more comfortable.

I have had a few plugins that you hear the delay when you hit stop and the sound continues for a 10th of a second or so. Remove the plugin and when you hit stop, the sound stops. One guitar amp sim that I tried was terrible. My Strymon eliminates any issue.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Of course, if you have something introducing substantial delay on the real time monitoring of what you're singing or performing that's not going to work,
but with regard to the choice between manually moving things around the timeline to correct or disabling latency introducing plugins,
those shouldn't be the options.
20 years ago, sure, but any DAW worth using should have compensation for that built in.

 

[noah330]

This is why many of us use hardware and/or AAXDSP.

 

[Papanate]

This is why many of us use hardware and/or AAXDSP.

Or many of us have super powerful computers with substantial Ram - Macbook Pro M4 Max 48gb ram 2 tb SSD - I haven’t been able to overwhelm the Laptop yet.

 

[noah330]

Or many of us have super powerful computers with substantial Ram - Macbook Pro M4 Max 48gb ram 2 tb SSD - I haven’t been able to overwhelm the Laptop yet.

Out of curiosity, can you track while monitoring resource-heavy plug-ins without latency? I was under the impression that apps like Console (UA_ exist to solve this problem.

 

[Papanate]

Out of curiosity, can you track while monitoring resource-heavy plug-ins without latency? I was under the impression that apps like Console (UA_ exist to solve this problem.

Well my record is 80 tracks with plugins - the laptop didn’t even blip the tiniest bit - BTW Are you talking about A-Console the API 1604 emulation?
I’ve never used it - but it doesn’t seem resource heavy -

 

[noah330]

I'm talking about tracking and monitoring through a plugin, like for example a track with a UA preamp and maybe an 1176 and LA2A plugin and having no latency when recording.

 

[ashcat_lt]

“Heavy processing” is not the problem. If you were running out of CPU ticks, you’d hear crackles and noises from buffer underruns. That might prompt you to increase your buffer size. That could cause a noticeable delay if you have to whack it up high enough.

But unless you’ve been down that road, that’s not the problem. The problem is that you’re using plugins which need to introduce latency in order to do their thing. Soothe apparently has a Live version which is supposedly “low latency”, but even that is not necessarily zero latency. The only real option is to leave those plugins off (or bypassed) from any track you’re trying to monitor live input through.

 

[Papanate]

I'm talking about tracking and monitoring through a plugin, like for example a track with a UA preamp and maybe an 1176 and LA2A plugin and having no latency when recording.

I’m not sure I understand - what do you mean tracking & monitoring through a plugin? I put a series of plugins on a vocal track - EQ -Tube EQ - Exciter - 2 Compressors , DeEsser etc.. Then I buss to a Compressor track and a Reverb Track - I am using Logic Pro - there is no noticeable latency in my setup - I also have Drums with various Plugins, Guitars, Bass,Synths etc... with Various plugins (Like Helix Native) etc…they all run with no noticeable latency - I have my I/O buffer size set to 64 Samples -

Unless I’m mistaken this is more resource heavy than just a UA Preamp and LA2A - so maybe there is something mixed up in your system?

 

[TalismanRich]

Do you use that chain (7+ plug-ins) in the monitoring feed to the singer's headphones while the singer is laying down the track in real time?

 

[Papanate]

Do you use that chain (7+ plug-ins) in the monitoring feed to the singer's headphones while the singer is laying down the track in real time?

All the time - I did it on the my latest Dear John release - I had a ton of things going on - now on my older Intel MacBook Pro - I had to freeze tracks and use Low Latency mode all the time - not on my Silicon MacBook Pro.