Why aren't my vocals cutting through the mix?

[kaptainkeys]

Hey all, I'm new here, so apologies if this is not the right forum. As an engineer I often get tracks to mix that I did not record and sometimes have issues getting the vocals to cut through the other instruments while also having them sit nicely in the mix. It feels like I've tried everything, different eq curves, different compressor settings, limiting, saturation, parallel processing, and more and I still am not happy with the results I'm getting, does anyone have any tips?

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

rock n roll? Yell . Use a compressor..then a limiter bricked. Yeah, smartly compress 2 twice.. Make it huge. Stretched. An omni microphone could benefit the track as head movements alter level..less with an omni pattern..

There is a big difference shooting for -6 or some bullshit, or Fuckn zero. Go for zero.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

The rule is,

"Simply" find the quietest place in the song and note how far down the signal is (in dB). Plug that number into the threshold of your limiter - and you're done.

if you see any dips in the waveform after that, zoom in, find the low spot and repeat.

When the waveform looks like one solid block of color, you have achieved a perfect modern mastering job."

"Low levels are for wimps."

"Dynamic range is way overrated."

"0 dBFS is not a limit, it's a goal."
-Harvey

 

[Papanate]

Hey all, I'm new here, so apologies if this is not the right forum. As an engineer I often get tracks to mix that I did not record and sometimes have issues getting the vocals to cut through the other instruments while also having them sit nicely in the mix. It feels like I've tried everything, different eq curves, different compressor settings, limiting, saturation, parallel processing, and more and I still am not happy with the results I'm getting, does anyone have any tips?

Post the Vocal Tracks - sometimes it’’s the vocalist and they just don’t have the voice that can cut through - sometimes it’s the arrangement and there is no room for vocals - and sometimes you need to mix acccording to the Vocals - turning everything down until the vocals are prominent.

 

[rob aylestone]

I'm the absolute opposite to lazer - minimal compression, no limiter, no smashing the levels - vocals are rarely wide in frequency - so mostly between say 300 and 4000Hz - ish? A bit of sparkle maybe above that. The secret is often to just make sure that space is not already full - so if you have loads of other stuff with midrange, you need to sculpt that a bit to create a 'hole' for the vocal to sit in - then maybe add a touch of compression. Of course if it's crazy loud headbanging stuff then fire up lazer's system, but that's not my way. Make a hole, sit the vocal in it.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

You think there is a cost or something? Like if you blow air into the microphone you won't get it back? Then they call you weezy...

Umm wait..

Best be safe use a gate..It's got to protect you from it ...anyways paranoia aside.

More signal is more to work with...no?

 

[Scott Baxendale]

Did you high pass all the guitars and instrument tracks that aren’t the kick or the bass?

One vocal trick I have learned is to slice and dice every syllable and gain level match. This kind of like a manual compressor in that all the low amplitude is raised and the high peaks are lowered. Then I copy this track 6 or 8 times and then take each track and repitch it a little. Take two copies and make one 2 cents sharper and one 2 cents flatter, then take two more and make them 4 cents sharper and flatter. This technique fattens up the vocal. Do all of this before using compression.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

Well, over-compression of the vocal can make things hard, so make sure you've not squashed it to the point of losing clarity in the vocal. Then, automation is one thing to look at, which I didn't see mentioned. But, I'm also a confessed, serial ducker.

Once I have more than just me and my guitar, or something similar, I *know* that someone/something is going to be stepping on the vocals. It may not take more than a half dB in volume or gain reduction (the automation part) during the verse/chorus on your bussed drums, guitars, whatever.. to open up that vocal. The trick is to make it so subtle it's just under the audible bar. If that fails, then try a compressor that side chains off the vocal track on those busses. The trick (IME) is to make the ["pretty low" ratio] compression attack very fast and the release not too long, and adjust the threshold so the consonants come out, but the compressed content doesn't really sound any different when it's happening.

p.s. you may want to use an EQ filter on that side chain, as well, to insure you're not compressing something in a buss that's not actually masking the vocal.

 

[JimmyS1969]

I am a big fan of this Howard Benson Vocals Bundle plug-in if you have $99 to spend. Simple to use. All kinds of cool vocal chain things from compression/limiter/EQ de-esser and saturation, to widener, doubler, delay and even a button you can automate for quick 'LOFI' sound.

It is my go to plug for vocal chain. It's only lacking is the reverb. I prefer more of a plate on most vocals. The one on this gets distant quickly. I am not a fan.

Howard Benson Vocals Bundle

Get Howard Benson's Award-Winning Vocal Chain! Joey Sturgis Tones announce an all-new vocal mixing plugin, Howard Benson Vocals, the signature vocal chain of legendary producer Howard Benson. Altogether, Benson has contributed to more than 100 million album sales and more than 20 billion streams...

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[markmann]

Nothing fancy here. Push as much as you can right/left, vocal center, use ducking, cut low mids, and keep the arrangement simple during vocals.

 

[Johne1]

I think you named the biggest problem—you didn’t record the vocals in the first place.
The obvious: Unless these tracks are being sent remotely, why not get the vocalist in and record them yourself?
Of all the suggestions, and there were some good ones, I like the slice and dice of the frequencies combined with panning and vocals center. I’d determine what frequencies the vocal range is sitting in and use that as a guide to get the instruments out of the way. Ducking along with EQing might render better results and not destroy the backing instruments. Like several others, I’m not a big fan of going crazy with compression. Too much compression can kill the singer’s mojo.

“Today’s music ain’t got the same soul as that old-time Rock n Roll” — Bob Seger

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

Thought about making my own thread but decided to jump into this one instead.

Nothing fancy here. Push as much as you can right/left, vocal center, use ducking, cut low mids, and keep the arrangement simple during vocals.

I have a few questions that pertain to recording vocals and minimal acoustic instrumentation.

If I have a project with nothing more than a vocal track and a single miked acoustic guitar track, would I be able to accomplish the above bolded feat by duplicating the guitar track, hard panning one track left and the other right, then leaving vocals center? Or is there a simpler way?

If I have a project with vocals, a miked acoustic guitar track, and the same guitar instrument line, would it be a good idea to simply pan the guitar mic one direction and the line the other? I imagine it might sound weird to do it that way, so would I need to duplicate both tracks and do what I mentioned above?

My apologies for the elementary questions. I guess that's what forums are for

 

[bouldersoundguy]

A source that is the same in both channels is in the center of the image. To make the separate, you have to make them different in left and right. For rock, that generally means double tracking (recording it twice). For acoustic guitar, you could try two mics (typically one at the 12th fret and one at the lower bout).

I would do it with eq, making some space for the vocal in the guitar's spectrum, and pushing a little 2-6kHz in the vocal. Dynamics also matter.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

Thought about making my own thread but decided to jump into this one instead.

I have a few questions that pertain to recording vocals and minimal acoustic instrumentation.

If I have a project with nothing more than a vocal track and a single miked acoustic guitar track, would I be able to accomplish the above bolded feat by duplicating the guitar track, hard panning one track left and the other right, then leaving vocals center? Or is there a simpler way?

If I have a project with vocals, a miked acoustic guitar track, and the same guitar instrument line, would it be a good idea to simply pan the guitar mic one direction and the line the other? I imagine it might sound weird to do it that way, so would I need to duplicate both tracks and do what I mentioned above?

My apologies for the elementary questions. I guess that's what forums are for

If you are saying you have the guitar mic’d and also have a direct “line” from a pickup, then they will be different enough you can try panning, but you have to think about what’s important in this project, too. And doubling the guitar may require more cuts in the lower end to keep it from turning into mud soup.

Once I have more than a single guitar [track], I’ll usually put those on a separate bus or group and work the pan spread there, and then do the reverb send from there, as well as do whatever EQ or other “carving” tweaks on that submix when trying to create space for vocals (assuming this Q is still remotely related to the OP’s).

 

[markmann]

Thought about making my own thread but decided to jump into this one instead.

I have a few questions that pertain to recording vocals and minimal acoustic instrumentation.

If I have a project with nothing more than a vocal track and a single miked acoustic guitar track, would I be able to accomplish the above bolded feat by duplicating the guitar track, hard panning one track left and the other right, then leaving vocals center? Or is there a simpler way?

If I have a project with vocals, a miked acoustic guitar track, and the same guitar instrument line, would it be a good idea to simply pan the guitar mic one direction and the line the other? I imagine it might sound weird to do it that way, so would I need to duplicate both tracks and do what I mentioned above?

My apologies for the elementary questions. I guess that's what forums are for

I have recorded acoustic and vocal many times and I do it one of two ways:
1. Record the acoustic part twice on two separate tracks and then pan one track right and one left.
2. Record one acoustic track and use a wide reverb to obtain some stereo width.
The first way is my preferred method.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

A source that is the same in both channels is in the center of the image. To make the separate, you have to make them different in left and right. For rock, that generally means double tracking (recording it twice). For acoustic guitar, you could try two mics (typically one at the 12th fret and one at the lower bout).

Thank you for your reply. One issue is that I am a little below amateur. For guitar instrumentals, I have used the method of one mic at 12th and the other in the bridge direction. However, when recording vocals I sing and play, so there is already some vocals ending up in the guitar mic/s and guitar in the vocal mic. I've always worried that using two guitar mikes while also recording vocals wouldn't work too well.

As for recording twice, I could try that but I don't know how to play along to a click track. I know, I'm prolly a PITA for an engineer to work with, which is why I try to do it all myself. Besides, how else can I justify buying all this equipment.

I would do it with eq, making some space for the vocal in the guitar's spectrum, and pushing a little 2-6kHz in the vocal. Dynamics also matter.

This seems like a simplerish option. How would I go about "making space" in the guitar's spectrum? Are there presets in my plugins that could help accomplish this method? I guess I could figure out what you mean by pushing a little kHz in the vocal. Not sure about the dynamics part either.

I better duck before someone here starts throwing recording gear at me. Thank you if you are able to take the time to answer the above questions. Sounds like I might be more annoying than the OP, but I think they were a one and dun anyway.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

If you are saying you have the guitar mic’d and also have a direct “line” from a pickup, then they will be different enough you can try panning, but you have to think about what’s important in this project, too. And doubling the guitar may require more cuts in the lower end to keep it from turning into mud soup.

Once I have more than a single guitar [track], I’ll usually put those on a separate bus or group and work the pan spread there, and then do the reverb send from there, as well as do whatever EQ or other “carving” tweaks on that submix when trying to create space for vocals (assuming this Q is still remotely related to the OP’s).

Thank you. When you speak of cutting low end, are you talking about EQ?

Since the OP did not specify what type of music they are recording, my question is the same but definitely pointed in the solo acoustic singer/songwriter direction.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

I have recorded acoustic and vocal many times and I do it one of two ways:
1. Record the acoustic part twice on two separate tracks and then pan one track right and one left.
2. Record one acoustic track and use a wide reverb to obtain some stereo width.
The first way is my preferred method.

Thank you, I like your minimalist style. For option 2, if you use a wide reverb on the guitar track, what kind of reverb would you recommend for the vocal track that would complement?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

How would I go about "making space" in the guitar's spectrum? Are there presets in my plugins that could help accomplish this method? I guess I could figure out what you mean by pushing a little kHz in the vocal. Not sure about the dynamics part either.

The "definition" region of the vocal is 2-6 kHz. If the instrument is competing in that range, it will make it hard to understand the lyrics. A little cut in the guitar and/or a little boost in the vocal there can let the words come through.


Dynamically, if the vocal varies a lot in volume, it can be hard to keep it present without some parts getting too loud. Compression (with some gain) can be used so the quiet parts don't get lost. A bit of compression on the guitar to rein in its level changes might also help.

 

[drtechno]

The "definition" region of the vocal is 2-6 kHz. If the instrument is competing in that range, it will make it hard to understand the lyrics. A little cut in the guitar and/or a little boost in the vocal there can let the words come through.


Dynamically, if the vocal varies a lot in volume, it can be hard to keep it present without some parts getting too loud. Compression (with some gain) can be used so the quiet parts don't get lost. A bit of compression on the guitar to rein in its level changes might also help.

One thing I wonder is the OP figured out the problem, or just wanted to post this question to see what others would do.
I can count 4 to 5 ways of addressing it, but without any details much less a sound sample of what they are struggling with, others are just going to guess on what to do.
Since this post was created in April 17, 2024.