Well today was rough...

[Ed Fones]

I'm not disputing the facts Ed - just pointing out that it is unusual here to find people who have even seen a real gun, close to, let alone touched one. Totally different to the maths of the USA. Half a million of the guns you mention are shotguns, and of course many legitimate owners have more than one. If you look at the nearly 70 million population, and the non-shotgun owners - they're a tiny proportion, and they own them for work, for sport or other sensible reasons. Ordinary people do not have a firearm, just in case? Just in case of what? A little old lady, unhappy with criminals in her area cannot own a gun, just in case she gets burgled and wants to shoot them?

Even noise or flash suppressors need a licence here, and 32% of the licences are for those, included in the figures - so we have a tiny percentage of the population who have a firearms licence - but that won't stop criminals I suppose.

All very true Rob and I agree. Though the self defence right has wrongly been taken away from UK citizens.

 

[CrowsofFritz]

Saying more laws won’t help conflicts with also saying the shooter shouldn’t have been able to buy the gun. Don’t know how that isn’t clear. How do you suggest stopping an unstable 18 year old from legally buying a gun without making it illegal?

And saying people have ‘always killed each other since Viking times’ as an excuse to not address the issue suggests to me an insensitivity that I find disturbing. The blood on your hands comment was severe, but how much longer can we just shrug our shoulders? Firearms are now the leading cause of death for kids. More than auto accidents. The efficiency of something like an AR15 vs something like a small handgun is dramatic. Surely we can find a balance between maintaining the right to bear arms while not giving such lethal power to individuals who have no need for it. Surely we can consider the age we allow these weapons to be purchased. Even simple fixes are resisted. Yes we can do a better job at securing and defending schools for sure, but won’t the people who want to kill continue to find softer targets like movie theaters or malls or restaurants? After all, you say people will always kill.

I also find the constitutional right to bear arms is rather open to interpretation.

The constitution doesn’t just say, “the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.”

It says more than that. The Supreme Court cannot agree on what the founders intended with that statement, which I believe is antiquated anyway.

But the Key and Peele skit is rather accurate to the American way of thinking.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

I also find the constitutional right to bear arms is rather open to interpretation.

the bill of rights is a binding contract. You can readdress your grievances..

The constitution doesn’t just say, “the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.”

yes it does. use common sense. its very simple.

You will always have the right to buy and own guns here. Contract paid for in blood. The only time people should be shooting others is on their own property and in self defense. So who are the assholes out on the streets? Thats the streets. These arent citizens looking to defend anything..They take. Im not giving. Fuck em.

 

[leddy]

This shall not be infringed thing…it’s already infringed so there’s clearly some interpretation involved. The discussion is really about where we draw the line. You can’t have nukes, most people can’t have tanks, or mortars, etc. I think the law prohibits fixed shells but you’re ok with muzzle loading old canons etc. No fully automatic without special permit.

Point is there are laws on what arms you can bear. The discussion is can we move the line and stop more mass shootings while maintaining the intention of the 2A.

Those that refuse to even discuss really need to examine their priorities. That’s the nicest way I can say it.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Could it be that people like that shooter are the very reason we need guns? Don't only arm the bad guys.

Say goodnight to the bad guy..

Black powder weapons..muskets and flint lock pistols do not require a FOID card for ownership. Wanna be a pirate?

 

[leddy]

Could it be that people like that shooter are the very reason we need guns? Don't only arm the bad guys.

Say goodnight to the bad guy..

Black powder weapons..muskets and flint lock pistols do not require a FOID card for ownership. Wanna be a pirate?

Here we go. Who said only arm the bad guys? You’re so damn afraid someone’s going to take your guns you can’t even have a discussion.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

You're full of shit! The State of Connecticut ranks very high on the list of States with extremely strict laws governing the purchasing and ownership of guns.

You are flat out wrong. No state has extremely strict gun laws.

Any strict gun law has been eliminated by the Republicans on the Supreme Court, who for the first time in US history legislated new rules against gun laws in 2010 in the District of Columbia v Heller case.

Any convicted violent felon rapist from Connecticut can mail order the parts necessary to assemble and assault rifle, and unlimited ammunition. No questions asked. And they do.

They can also drive a few hours and get an assault rifle and unlimited ammunition, with no background check and no questions asked. And they do.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Why are people taking guns off their property? Why are so many people mentally ill?

The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Where are the family units? That gives the boy structure. Why are so many thugs? Get some skills. Make some money. Be somebody...

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Americans were originally ex-Europeans who escaped the very problems that caused wars in Europe. A lot of those problems are still there and there is lots of unfinished or unsettled rivalry's in Europe.

Europe's wars were largely caused by Religion - particularly Catholics persecuting non-Catholics.

The people who came to America were puritans who merely desired to flip the script and persecute Catholics.

They weren't superior. They were just a different sect of the same stupid Christian tribe. And so they burned people for being witches, embraced racial slavery, and did all sorts of other stupid stuff.

The fact that that US constitution somehow came out of that is a full blown miracle. It could have been so much worse.

 

[CrowsofFritz]

the bill of rights is a binding contract. You can readdress your grievances..

yes it does. use common sense. its very simple.

You will always have the right to buy and own guns here. Contract paid for in blood. The only time people should be shooting others is on their own property and in self defense. So who are the assholes out on the streets? Thats the streets. These arent citizens looking to defend anything..They take. Im not giving. Fuck em.

No it doesn’t, read it again. The first part clearly states the founders intended the right for use of a WELL REGULATED militia.

 

[leddy]

I have blood on my hands? Feel free to elaborate further as to what it is that lead you to write those words. Is it because I'm not a Democrat?

If that's the case, eat shit and die.

Here in Connecticut, the majority State leader of the Democrat party, Bob Duff, posted a tweet on Twitter directed at the Governor of Texas.



Horrible words for anyone to write toward the Texas governor, but Duff's words are just another example of how low Democrats can go.

From where I sit, it appears that you're fitting in quite well in your new party.

I apologize for the blood on your hands comment. Comments like that do not lead to productive discussion.
I do not wish for things to get personal.

However, we are talking about children being slaughtered in their classrooms. Shot with weapons of war that can be legally purchased by teenagers. Armed cops didn’t stop them. Adam Lanza shot his way in to Sandy Hook through a locked door. It’s possible a less powerful gun may have stopped him?

Why can’t we have this discussion? Why does any attempt to find a workable solution to keeping the intent of the 2A while limiting the ability of mass shooters get met with immediate stonewalling? Abbott gets to admonish TX for not buying enough guns but the problem is people getting angry about that?

Even writing this my blood pressure is rising and I’m resisting personal attacks. I can’t take this. I’m really pissed that you guys refuse to help stop this madness.

 

[Ed Fones]

Europe's wars were largely caused by Religion - particularly Catholics persecuting non-Catholics.

The people who came to America were puritans who merely desired to flip the script and persecute Catholics.

They weren't superior. They were just a different sect of the same stupid Christian tribe. And so they burned people for being witches, embraced racial slavery, and did all sorts of other stupid stuff.

The fact that that US constitution somehow came out of that is a full blown miracle. It could have been so much worse.

You are a perfect example of ignorance. I wont debate with somebody who ran away from explaining about Democracy a few days ago but I will give you some things to enlighten an empty vessel you own.

Try potato famine.

Try class system and Monarchical systems.

Try land clearances.

Try ethnic cleansing.

Try Communism.

Try war.

Try persecution of the lower classes.

Just for starters. When you have read up on them, come back and debate like a civilized educated person.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

but in this county, the police have never shot anyone, ever!

There was Charles De Menezez, Rob. The innocent unarmed electrician, minding his own business on the london underground railway, when he was blown away by a gang of armed police officers, who had got the wrong man.

 

[ez_willis]

I'm not reading all of this but I think I have this thing figured out in such a way that both sides will agree. We're approaching the problem wrong. What's the one thing that all school shootings have in common? Every single one of these instances there was a school involved. Now, we OBVIOUSLY can't take people or guns out of the equation but I have yet to hear anyone suggesting taking the actual school out the equation. No schools = no school shootings.

You're welcome.

 

[rob aylestone]

Raymond - that wasn't in this part of the country. Here, it's difficult to encourage Police to do taser training, let alone firearms!

 

[leddy]

How does refusing to even do background checks align with a well-regulated militia?

“Texas lawmakers won’t even pass universal background checks to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people even though about 80 percent of Texans support them.”

Abbott says 'never again'. Don't fall for it, Texans — Disqus Refugees

“Horrifically, incomprehensibly.” That’s how Gov. Greg Abbott described the actions of a gunman who slaughtered at least 18 children and their teacher Tuesday at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde. The first word is apt — especially for the moms and dads who dropped off their little ones at school T

disqusrefugees.squarespace.com

 

[ibleedburgundy]

You are a perfect example of ignorance. I wont debate with somebody who ran away from explaining about Democracy a few days ago..

I explained it well enough.

You just didn't comprehend it.

You agree with Trump that 1 person needs all the power. You are a totalitarian. I am not. We will never agree on this unless you change your opinion.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

There was Charles De Menezez, Rob. The innocent unarmed electrician, minding his own business on the london underground railway, when he was blown away by a gang of armed police officers, who had got the wrong man.

In the UK the police kill between 0 and 4 people per year in general.

In the USA, the police kill approximately 1000 people each year.

Our cops are scared shitless of our heavily armed population, and so they routinely shoot people.

 

[Dave Matthews]

Not old enough to drink because you can't be trusted to handle it.
Old enough to buy high powered semi auto weapons cuz... um... WTF?

 

[leddy]

Not old enough to drink because you can't be trusted to handle it.
Old enough to buy high powered semi auto weapons cuz... um... WTF?

The gun lobby is stronger than the alcohol lobby apparently. Maybe the alcohol lobby can study what they’re doing. Pretty soon they can lower that drinking age to 5 or so.