Recording SM7B for live broadcast and podcast

[G22]

Hi again Rob, to be honest too I liked how it sounded yesterday while posting my results but after comparing my streams I'm not sure I really like the SM7B without bells and whistles of processing. One sure thing is that with the last setup posted there's basically no background noise, even the AC is hard to notice. I kinda like how it sounds in my Focal headphones but not on the speakers.

Here's a comparison of how I used to setup

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

clips.twitch.tv

And here's how I've setup yesterday

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

clips.twitch.tv

If you have any opinion on this, please share!

 

[rob aylestone]

I've never seen anyone speak across the mic like that. Is there any reason you do this - it sounds better than it should. It just means that small differences in the angle very quickly alter the sound. In some of your other clips you are speaking into it and it's warmer - but I guess it's what you like.

 

[G22]

I've never seen anyone speak across the mic like that. Is there any reason you do this - it sounds better than it should. It just means that small differences in the angle very quickly alter the sound. In some of your other clips you are speaking into it and it's warmer - but I guess it's what you like.

Yes I know I'm speaking in it 90 degree. Thing is that it hides my face while streaming. I wonder is the Neumann BCM 104 or the cheaper BCM 705 you showed me would help for this?

According to this video it sounds much more clear

 

[rob aylestone]

Yes it does but of course that’s because it’s dynamic and they all lose bass off-axis. The only mics that don’t are omnis. Close talking at different angles into a cardioid or condenser varies the sound. You’ve chosen a mic that does one thing very well and are using it in ways it wasn’t designed for. The results will always be unpredictable. It actually sounds ok most of the time but maybe you might try a clip on omni for consistent audio with an EQ you like, and then use the Shure as a prop? I’m quite impressed that you don‘t seem to hear you constantly touching it. Under the circumstances it’s doing a fine job. Those Neumanns wont be so forgiving.

 

[G22]

The only mics that don’t are omnis. It actually sounds ok most of the time but maybe you might try a clip on omni for consistent audio with an EQ you like

Any recommendations?

and then use the Shure as a prop?

I don't care to remove the microphone, I care about monitoring myself in real time. Sometimes I use the Sennheiser AVX-MKE2 for arcade building where I move a lot. I can't put the stream's background music through the speakers because the viewers hear it twice. I could use a Bluetooth headset but the monitor is delayed and it's impossible to talk.

I’m quite impressed that you don‘t seem to hear you constantly touching it. Under the circumstances it’s doing a fine job. Those Neumanns wont be so forgiving.

I know right, I think this bad habit comes from the fact I've never been comfortable using the SM7B. It's either hiding my face as it's between my camera and my face or I simply can't stay at the same spot when streaming, I move a lot on the computer chair being there for long periods. I should really buy a house and build a noiseless studio room with a Neumann condenser.

I'm just not there yet. I'm kind of in the middle of

1. Keep the CL-2 with SM7B (I also hate the fact it's not a rack unit)
2. Return the CL-2 and run the SM7B without and one day build my noiseless streaming studio
3. Return the CL-2, sell the SM7B microphones and buy a Neumann and try to do voodoo to have the microphone not in close mic

I'm tired!

 

[rob aylestone]

if you want to do it like the broadcasters, then it’s an earpiece wired or wireless for things you need to hear, and silence in the studio. If you have that Sennheiser have you tried just using that for everything? Your audio would sound identical, sitting or moving? If you like the vibe of the in shot mic, just use the Shure as a prop, and nobody will know? Your very keen to get exactly the right sound, so losing the music in the studio can only help clean it up. With a monitor going I see why you need the close mic, so lose the speaker?

 

[G22]

Well I can't bypass the headphones. I need the game sound I'm playing and the audio background music is only the case for art/science streams.

And I can't have headphones without mic monitor and talk my ears covered.

The Sennheiser's mics doesn't sound as good as the SM7B's or my Rode NT1000 so I only use them when I need wireless.

Also the Sennheiser's have a delay when monitoring which makes them impossible to use when I need to monitor my voice.

SM7B's still looks like the best choice speaking of quality/price for my non-studio environment. One day I'll have a studio and I'll buy the Neumann!

The other choice could be the Neumann BCM 705 but it doesn't seems like the frequency response is that much different from the SM7B.

SM7B

BCM 705

What do you think?

 

[rob aylestone]

Sennheiser's are analogue, they don't have any latency or delay? If you want to spend lots of money on a mic, then buy a small audio mixer so you can have in your ears, anything you need. I can't help - you want something but I doubt the Neumann will do much than uncover other issues like room treatment and noises. If you want to go up a notch, then you'll need to change things - and how you do things. Playing music that the mic picks up is a first step in cleaning up your sound. Up to you if you spend lots of money sorting out things on paper. Having a mixer could also give you access to EQ adjustment, foldbacks and other useful things. Those response curves are similar - only you can tell if that is what you actually want? The trouble with cardioids is that the proximity effect varies greatly with distance and angle - and those plots say nothing about that - so it's another gamble.

 

[G22]

Sennheiser's are analogue, they don't have any latency or delay?

They're wireless, I think no delay is impossible. I mean there's no delay syncing audio and video but there's a small ms delay that makes it horrible to monitor my voice.

then buy a small audio mixer so you can have in your ears, anything you need [...] Having a mixer could also give you access to EQ adjustment, foldbacks and other useful things

I already have a Behringer XR18 and a Motu M.2. For broadcasting I use the XR18 and I can monitor myself perfectly with it. My post was more about microphones.

I can't help - you want something but I doubt the Neumann will do much than uncover other issues like room treatment and noises. If you want to go up a notch, then you'll need to change things - and how you do things. [...] Those response curves are similar - only you can tell if that is what you actually want? The trouble with cardioids is that the proximity effect varies greatly with distance and angle - and those plots say nothing about that - so it's another gamble.

You've talked about the BCM 104 condenser and I found about the BCM 705 dynamic. The 705 seems similar to the SM7B, at least with a voice like mine. But like you said, id need to try it and compare. I've checked the stores around me and they don't carry the 705, it's a special order without a return policy.

That led me to more reading. And more reading. And I went through this post all over again and I think you made a good point throughout all your answers"

"I don’t think I’ve ever used such radical EQ, the need for that suggests to me it’s the wrong mic, being forced into submission."

"If you get the right mic in the right place, then EQ for me, is gentle and specific. gentle small hills not mountains."

"Why not? You clearly want crispness, hence the HF boost - SM7Bs are that classic deep American AM radio sounding mics. When people use them close, lips on the foam, they sound dark and dismal. If you want that, they're a great mic. If you hate that sound, the SM7B was a bad buy, because that's what they do best."

"I listened to the Twitch clip and you've EQ'd it to sound like a condenser - honest. If I had to have guessed dynamic or condenser, no way I'd have said dynamic because you've removed the warmness the proximity effect gives you and turned it into something totally unlike the characteristic sound of an SM7B - which has normally, a sound of it's own."

"You’ve chosen a mic that does one thing very well and are using it in ways it wasn’t designed for."

I have to apologize and say that I did what I wanted to see. It's just hard for me to eat the pill of investing in SM7B mics that I don't like in the end. Poor research, my fault. The only time I like them is for singing so I may keep one.

I've got a deal on Reverb and scored a BCM 104 for 600 USD with free shipping. It's used but judging by the pictures it looks like it's brand new as stated in the description. Seller only have one 5 stars review, I hope it wasn't a scam! We'll see. But yeah, I couldn't resist and let this deal slip in my hands.

I'll sell one SM7B and will create another topic for room treatment. I heard that Sweetwater does free quotes for helping you choose the right material to soundproof your room.

Thank you for all of your help, I'll report here how I like the BCM 104 and how it reacts in my room.

 

[DM60]

I heard that Sweetwater does free quotes for helping you choose the right material to soundproof your room.

Do some searching on this site, there is lots of material on room treatments and materials to use. If you are even the slightest handy, you can do it yourself for pennies on the dollar. Really, it is a huge price difference and you can get some great results for very little time investment.

 

[rob aylestone]

Analogue radio mics are the same as wired mics. Digital ones have tiny latency due to the two conversions, but as a band who use wireless in ears and a digital link for my bass I can assure you that even with a digital desk the latency that must be there is so tiny I cannot detect it. With analogue radio there is no conversion read in read out, so zero latency. If you are hearing it, it is coming from your computer/interface, not the mic.

 

[G22]

Do some searching on this site, there is lots of material on room treatments and materials to use. If you are even the slightest handy, you can do it yourself for pennies on the dollar. Really, it is a huge price difference and you can get some great results for very little time investment.

Thank you for the heads up, I'll look into it, I'm manual so that's great news.

Analogue radio mics are the same as wired mics. Digital ones have tiny latency due to the two conversions, but as a band who use wireless in ears and a digital link for my bass I can assure you that even with a digital desk the latency that must be there is so tiny I cannot detect it. With analogue radio there is no conversion read in read out, so zero latency. If you are hearing it, it is coming from your computer/interface, not the mic.

Then it must be coming from the XR18, I wonder how's that as everything else wired I plug in the XR18 and monitor through the headphones output have 0 delay. Could it be possible that the Sennheiser are in fact digital? I know they have some sort of internal processing on the audio.

What you're saying is really interesting because I always wanted wireless headphones but I've never found anything not causing latency. It's okay for most of what I need but it's terrible with monitoring my voice, the delay feels like I'm drunk to the point I can't talk.

 

[rob aylestone]

Bluetooth had terrible delay but wireless IEM is analogue and not a source of latency because if it was, nobody could use them, and everyone does. Sennheiser do digital mics but delays are so small as to be insignificant. I have four handhelds and the only thing with the latency is a reduction in feedback. What happens is that the system is reluctant to suddenly take off when people accidentally get close to monitors or the main PA. I first noticed it when I had to quickly get to the stage with a live mic in my hand and knew it would howl as I passed the main speaker stack - but it didn’t. It can be a real asset, but the hollow sound you detect before feedback happens is absent. When feedback does happen it is instant, with no warning and bad! I think it’s the slight latency that causes this but I like it and nobody has ever noticed, even when they hear their voice through in ears only. M X32’s and M32 certainly don’t have this problem. Something must be adrift.

 

[G22]

Bluetooth had terrible delay but wireless IEM is analogue and not a source of latency because if it was, nobody could use them, and everyone does. Sennheiser do digital mics but delays are so small as to be insignificant. I have four handhelds and the only thing with the latency is a reduction in feedback. What happens is that the system is reluctant to suddenly take off when people accidentally get close to monitors or the main PA. I first noticed it when I had to quickly get to the stage with a live mic in my hand and knew it would howl as I passed the main speaker stack - but it didn’t. It can be a real asset, but the hollow sound you detect before feedback happens is absent. When feedback does happen it is instant, with no warning and bad! I think it’s the slight latency that causes this but I like it and nobody has ever noticed, even when they hear their voice through in ears only. M X32’s and M32 certainly don’t have this problem. Something must be adrift.

I just tried the Sennheiser again and what I though was a delay is in reality was room echo. If I speak directly in the lavalier the perception of the delay is gone. Although there's still a tiny delay compared to monitoring the SM7B on the same soundcard, but it's so small I guess it's normal since there's some digital processing as stated on the product info page and reviews. Thank you for letting me know about this, pretty interesting.