My Corona

[RFR]

I can't imagine living in the city and having to stay in some small one-bedroom apartment for two months.

And in New York city or the Bay area, that apt can cost you 3, 4 k a month or more and you have 2, 3, 4 or more roommates to cover rent!

Now you’re NOT allowed to go to work and are just sitting in your tiny apt with your roommates waiting for your government handout.

Sounds like hell to me.

All based on flawed models, padded statistics, pumping fear. And as the actual numbers have gone down from the models projected, the government gets to pat itself on the back claiming that it’s actions ‘saved us’

Nope. It’s dictatorship we’re living under.

 

[CoolCat]

sounds like an affordable housing issue...California cities, nothing new there. the creative house loans like "balloon loans" make it normal ?

news in Texas is start to turn things on slowly plan roll-out.
peaking out in April, May to drop off slowly in the death and overloaded hospital crisis is based on optimism.

still huge lines in cars showing up for Food Banks, 3hrs....and the National Guard to increase Food Bank handouts to the people with cars and trucks. Reminds me of the Pulitzer Prize book "Fear of the Unknown" and how the Great Depression initially tried some "food lines" tests, to dispel there was a problem, or not....

and the masses of thousands showed up for food, the lines horrifically larger than the rich politicians on yahts had expected. Stunned they realized there was a much worse problem at hand than they had theorized.

the lines in Dallas were kind of shocking to see on tv, huge huge long lines of cars waiting for cardboard boxed of food...people laid off for this virus, not much savings, working poor...er...non-working poor ….middle class? ex-middle class?
Not to be pessimistic but I don't see some sudden normalcy in the economy, I hope Im wrong.

Maybe the govt will print a lot of money for another month or three of handouts and prop things up. What else can they do?

 

[miroslav]

the lines in Dallas were kind of shocking to see on tv, huge huge long lines of cars waiting for cardboard boxed of food...people laid off for this virus, not much savings, working poor...er...non-working poor ….middle class? ex-middle class?
Not to be pessimistic but I don't see some sudden normalcy in the economy, I hope Im wrong.

We may never have a clear number of how many more lives were saved with the shutdowns...VS...if people continued on fairly normally with their lives and with work, and just practiced the exact same caution they are being told to do for when they plan to start reopening the economy.

Likewise, we may know even less about how many lives will be destroyed by the shutdowns, because it will be a protracted process, and much of it will happen over time and as a domino affect, making it hard to tie specifically to the shutdowns.

That's the thing...if we save lives now just to destroy them over the long-term...what's the real point?

 

[CoolCat]

no news around here, a lot of "could be, maybe's, might happen, looks possible, " floating around.

crisis continues but it seems to have lost its initial big bang shock....like Billie E and brother making the industry take note with a 5 grammy Bedroom Homegrown win....like the first man on the moon thing, the second trip wasn't so shocking. WHo even knows how many people have walked around on the moon now?

the dissecting of everything presented seems to have won out and leaves only a "might be's".

Texas Re-Opens Retail Businesses
On April 17, 2020, Governor Greg Abbott signed an Executive Order authorizing the re-opening of retail businesses effective April 24.

Toilet Paper is back in stock.

I would post some numbers but no one believes the Death numbers anymore because they might be including everyone, or some other reason.

like that song "whats going on?"

 

[miroslav]

The latest bit of news that caught my eye was that a professor out of Oxford, is now saying that the lockdowns may end up having a worse effect than the virus.

Like DUH!
I was wondering when people would start to see that...but the endless cry from what I consider the true "covidiots" who are constantly living fear and wanting everyone locked down indefinitely so that they can feel safe...has made a lot of people blind to what an extended lockdown could really mean.
Already the lockdown shockwaves are causing lots of damage economically...but also, mentally, it's starting to really wear on people, and no, it's not just a little bit of discomfort, it's unhealthy in many ways.
The real effect may not be felt for months or even years...which is why so many are blind to it, or their immediate fear won't let them see.

I had to go out again today...and WOW, compared to a couple of weeks ago, everywhere I looked, empty parking lots, closed business...and hardly anyone on the roads.
Here in NYS...our governor now wants to conduct "aggressive testing" before he decides to let people back out. I'm kinda curious how they plan to do that....like will someone go around to people's houses, knocking on doors...considering mostly everyone is sitting home.

The other piece of news was someone saying that they think we may have been too late with the lockdowns...that the spread and peaks were already in play before them.
Another DUH!
I thought it become obvious that the virus was here going back to November...yet many were acting like it just showed up out of nowhere in early March, and we immediately went into the lockdowns to "stop the spread". I think it was all too late...which as I had noted a few days ago, that the "curve" was not flattening as predicted...and that's because the lockdowns had little effect on it here in NY.

 

[RFR]

I don’t even know what to say anymore. The panic and fear is so deeply imbedded in so many.
The numbers projected are down, yet it seems the freedom robbing measures are even stronger.

Maybe the virus is s danger to life, but the government actions are literally taking our lives away from us. What’s worse, that you might die??? Which, by the way happens to all of us, in case you forgot..... or the absolute fact that the world’s governments won’t allow you to live.

You get people scared enough and they’ll willingly accept the chains of their own enslavement.

 

[miroslav]

I'm more concerned about how people have reacted to this and how much they are willing to give up because of fear...than the virus risk.

The virus is bad enough, but we could live with it, and it looks like we will have to because it's not going away...
...but to then add even more destruction to our lives and our future by our reaction to the virus, is kinda mindboggling that so many are OK with that, and calling for even more extended destruction of our lives because they think it will make them that much safer.

 

[CoolCat]

Im thinking round 2, next Flu Season.

Someone said the 1918 pandemic was worse the 2nd round, the next flu season. I would predict if we turn everything back on, by next year no one will want to destroy the economy again and the next Flu Season with the China Flu we can test the "do nothing" approach and let it run its course and let the economy run, and the death tolls be what they are.

My advice stock up on toilet paper...or things could get messy.

 

[miroslav]

Have any of you noticed the transition in some advertising on TV/Radio where the virus is indirectly part of the message...?

The marketing crews really jumped on it, and there are more and more ads that have been tailored to give either a "sympathy", "safety", or "security" tone to their product sales pitches. Profit from fear.

Some ads by certain manufacturers promote the disinfection properties of their products.
I wonder if post-COVID-19 people will go overboard with wanting to regularly disinfect everything both in and out of their homes...?

Just when the anti-germ hand soaps and other products were being toned down, and many of the ingredients where being removed from them, like all that Triclosan stuff that was in everything, including in most toothpastes, because science realized that we were overdoing it with disinfection, which was allowing for new, highly resistant strains of germs to emerge...
...we may now be heading into an even greater obsession with disinfection and the manufacturing of those products.

It's better to develop natural immunity from germs rather than try to disinfect and inject everything with chemistry for the sake of obsessive protection.

 

[CoolCat]

yes, my brother and I were laughing about it the other day. The phony sympathy COVIC19 adds with a fake vibe of using the crisis as a new Sales Marketing advertisement is hilarious...but hey, that's what they do..right?

actually, to each their own but the news reporters and this over-the top whiny feely mushy pampered talk with every 2 minutes its "stay safe!, don't let the flubug bite you! think positiveloveydovery poopoo" gets obnoxious and I turn it off. Maybe its all designed for 12 yr old girls or something, but its too much it seems for my tastes. Its like the kind of thing I recall from Kindergarten not adults.
is it misplaced? maybe save it for the kids and ederly?

its too much, so another reason I enjoy Netflix and AmazonPrime, Hulu etc...no commercials, no fake news people and none of the phony talk show overemotional 1st grader fluffy stuff.

to each their own, right?

I guess also... every human on the face of the earth is a music playing singer with a live-streaming device with crappy audio and crappy visual wanting CORONAVIRUS DONATIONS too...to save the world? I never realized everyone in the world from 2yr olds to Nursing Home Boomers all play instruments and want to sing to the world. (of course…asking for me to Donate...lol yeah right...whose watching where the "donation money" goes?)

oh well Power to the People...and iPhones...

BabyBoomers….GenX…..Millenials….GenZ…..something for everyone I guess?

 

[TAE]

I guess also... every human on the face of the earth is a music playing singer with a live-streaming device with crappy audio and crappy visual wanting CORONAVIRUS DONATIONS too...to save the world? I never realized everyone in the world from 2yr olds to Nursing Home Boomers all play instruments and want to sing to the world. (of course…asking for me to Donate...lol yeah right...whose watching where the "donation money" goes?)

oh well Power to the People...and iPhones...

BabyBoomers….GenX…..Millenials….GenZ…..something for everyone I guess?

Watching the voice over the last 17 seasons definitely made me realize that the pond is filled with a lot more incredible singers than I ever imagined...With all the places one can broadcast from home their own video feed has likewise made me realize how common great talent is...Though I see A LOT of stuff that would not be commercially successful,from REALLY well known artist it has been a breathe of fresh air to see the pros putting it out there in real time in PJ's. Also for all the amateur hour pretty bad stuff out there, there has been some great entertainment... On Facebook there is a group called Quarantine Karaoke some pathetically bad stuff and some amazing shit! Yesterday a cat from Canada I met and became friends with from trying to buy a plugiator online about 10 years ago posted his first live broadcast.... Tim's a bad ass.... So yeah all these cringe worthy videos popping up everywhere it can be seen as a negative but it has forced a lot of us to embrace technology we had not yet embraced...I doubt Tim would have ever done this as everything he puts out is pretty professionally produced ... Personally I love a good one shot live recording over most multitrack produced stuff...specially when it's just a person and their instrument of choice.

Here's Tim Connors version of CTDummies Superman Song

​

 

[jm67]

I don’t even know what to say anymore. The panic and fear is so deeply imbedded in so many.
The numbers projected are down, yet it seems the freedom robbing measures are even stronger.

Maybe the virus is s danger to life, but the government actions are literally taking our lives away from us. What’s worse, that you might die??? Which, by the way happens to all of us, in case you forgot..... or the absolute fact that the world’s governments won’t allow you to live.

You get people scared enough and they’ll willingly accept the chains of their own enslavement.

And I've been amused at the number of junior high-school Libertarians coming out of the closet to peddle their "Don't tread on me" garbage. The inability to recognize that part of government's role is public safety in times of pandemic is pretty sad. There are lots of failed states around the world with no effective central government,.. you're welcome to move there and ride out COVID.

 

[TAE]

Im thinking round 2, next Flu Season.
Someone said the 1918 pandemic was worse the 2nd round, the next flu season.

Things are substantially different 102 years later..Pretty certain we will have a Covid-19 vaccine within a few more months...IMO highly unlikely this particular virus will see a round two..That said...nothing stopping another Sars or similar type nasty bug to come our way again in another few years...This one surely will go down in the books as a game changer on the scope of Pearl Harbor, 911 etc...

 

[miroslav]

The inability to recognize that part of government's role is public safety in times of pandemic is pretty sad.

In theory maybe...but when the government idea of public safety is one big confused mess of misinformation, and is achieved through totalitarian control tactics, as seen in some states, I would rather they not worry about my safety too much, because I can do a better job of it on my own...
...but I know there is a large portion of the population that thinks big government is needed to care for us womb-to-tomb, as though we are all little children who can't think for or take care of ourselves.

...IMO highly unlikely this particular virus will see a round two...

Mmm...they've been saying for days now that there is a growing concern of a bigger round two...and I think much of it will be *because* of the shutdowns, since many healthy people who were not previously exposed will be coming back out soon.
The shutdowns were a mistake here IMO, because the virus was already here and well spread...so allowing natural immunity to develop rather than shutting in healthy people would have helped prevent a big round two.
If you look at my state of NY...there has been no "flattening of the curve"...the daily rates since the shutdown stared back on March 22 have just climbed, and for the last 3 weeks have pretty much stayed up...a day down, then two days back up...but no significant downturn or "flattening".

Now because our "NY on PAUSE" order isn't really achieving what they expected with the spread...governor Adolf Cuomo wants to create a "tracking army" to go around investigating everyone and who they were in contact with.
I mean really...we are so close to becoming a military type state here...and all being sold as a way to make us more "safe".

Meanwhile...they are now starting to realize that there may very well be way more infected, but not sick, people than they thought...which would both bring the mortality rate of COVID-19 down, and it would also mean that natural heard immunity was already well in play...and we just messed it up by shutting all the healthy people in.
It will be interesting to see where the numbers end up in a few months, and the explanations for them that follow from all the experts and politicians.

 

[miroslav]

Coronavirus: are we underestimating how many people have had it? Sweden thinks so

"But unless those who remain uninfected are protected until effective pharmacological interventions (vaccines, prophylactics and therapeutics) come online, the ultimate burden of deaths may be the same in countries who opt for lockdown as in those who adopted more liberal containment strategies."

Looks like the reality is finally settling in...and no, there's little chance we're all going to stay inside for another 6-12 months waiting on some miracle vaccine.
We need to let people get back out and allow natural immunity to take place, since we missed the boat on trying to stop the spread by shutting people inside because the virus spread was underway before the shutdowns.

 

[gecko zzed]

the ultimate burden of deaths may be the same in countries who opt for lockdown as in those who adopted more liberal containment strategies.

Maybe not.

Sweden: 16,755 cases. 2,021 deaths. Infection rate: 1,659 cases per 1m. Death rate: 200 per 1m population. Recovered: 550. Recovery rate: 3.3%
Australia: 6,667 cases. 75 deaths. Infection rate: 261 per 1m. Death rate: 3 per 1m popuation. Recovered: 5,045. Recovery rate: 75.7%

Note also

Sweden: 9,357 tests per 1m
Australia: 18,300 tests per 1m

Sweden's virus situation is not the worst, but nor is it the best. It's kind of middling. Its infection rate is a bit better than Germany and Israel, the same as Austria, and a bit worse than Norway and Denmark.

Sweden's death rate (200) is worse than USA's (150).

 

[miroslav]

Maybe not.

Sweden: 16,755 cases. 2,021 deaths. Infection rate: 1,659 cases per 1m. Death rate: 200 per 1m population. Recovered: 550. Recovery rate: 3.3%
Australia: 6,667 cases. 75 deaths. Infection rate: 261 per 1m. Death rate: 3 per 1m popuation. Recovered: 5,045. Recovery rate: 75.7%

Note also

Sweden: 9,357 tests per 1m
Australia: 18,300 tests per 1m

Sweden's virus situation is not the worst, but nor is it the best. It's kind of middling. Its infection rate is a bit better than Germany and Israel, the same as Austria, and a bit worse than Norway and Denmark.

Sweden's death rate (200) is worse than USA's (150).

I know what you're saying...and I'm not implying anything more than what the article talks about...though I think what Sweden is doing is playing the long game...while here in the USA we're playing the short game.

One or the other will prove to be the better choice...but we may have to wait for at least another 3 months or more for the long game to be played out before we can really compare numbers.

One key point that is coming up more and more, and not just from Sweden, is the growing realization that many more have already been exposed than the numbers are currently showing...and if that's the case, it really changes the perspective on what the best approach would be to deal with this.
Add to that...the growing realization that many are not showing any serious symptoms even though they have been infected.
Both of those factors will change the view on mortality rates and also on the option to go with natural herd immunity.

Granted...people are dying, and many already dead...there's nothing good about that or insignificant...but at some point, you have to look at the big picture and take what may seem the somewhat insensitive view, that the total number dead VS those not affected and those who survived, may fall into a "normal/acceptable" level....and before anyone goes off about the how every life is precious...what I mean by "normal/acceptable", is that the ratio might not be much different/worse compared to that of many other things that kill us each year, and that as tragic as it is, we've learned to accept those things as part of everyday life and still not live in fear and with panic because of those things.

I mean...we buy life insurance and accidental death insurance like it's a normal thing...which means we understand that life has risks and lots of things can kill us...but we don't stop everything and hide inside because of those things.

 

[TAE]

Mmm...they've been saying for days now that there is a growing concern of a bigger round two...".

If they're referring to a eminently soon round 2 like in the next few weeks maybe a month..That could be true...If we're speaking of a year from now....I would point to to previous "they say" comments like "People who don't have the virus don't need to wear a mask" The masses are asses...the media needs to have something to talk about to keep their jobs and get advertising dollars coming in...so let's talk about next years boogie man...Common sense tells me it is really very likely we will have a vaccine within months and we should be able to have that ready for the masses by next years season of possibility. I suppose there is a very small chance we won't be ready but I am doubtful of that. With regard to the "We don't know if someone who had the antibody can get it the same virus again" while it is true there is no scientific way to say beyond a shadow of doubt you can't catch Covid-19 twice...because we just don't know...Based upon all previous Rhino virus's known to man none were under normal conditions able to be caught twice...So IMO the idea of Covid-19 being able to be caught twice is likely null. That said we won't know 100% for sure for a while...If you read the talking heads ( Media) they have plenty to expound upon so if you google catching Covid-19 twice you'll get all kinds of babble on the subject...however if you google can I catch the same cold virus twice ( Rhino virus as is Covid-19 your nose is the the place it propagates) you get a very clear answer because we know for sure because we have had many years to confirm...the answer is a absolute NO Here's a good article on catching a cold twice

 

[CoolCat]

Watching the voice over the last 17 seasons definitely made me realize that the pond is filled with a lot more incredible singers than I ever imagined...

watching the news the Rolling Stones redid words to CORONAVIRUS something and BoyZ2Men also made a CoronaVirus song.
the tv announcer said "ok I guess everyones making a coronoavirus song..."

 

[gecko zzed]

I prepared this comparison of Sweden and Australia for somewhere else, but it maybe of interest here: