ashcat_lt
Well-known member
There's also that ReaPack thing now. I don't really know anything about it because I don't connect either of my Reaper machines to the internet, and I'm not sure if I can get those things any other way.
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Paj
Well-known member
Now's the time to get GuitarRig if you really want it---NI stuff is on sale until the end of June (don't forget to investigate their crossgrade paths). I empathize with the Waves issue---great products but they really know how to shoot themselves in the foot (and in my case, bleed out). Amplitube is one of the few IK plugins that doesn't drive me crazy with reauthorizations. There are VST amp sims available for free on the net. Brainworx and PlugNPlay have good, inexpensive ones for select models (the effects would be separate purchases). iOS sims seem to be inexpensive. There are amps that interface directly over USB.
Paj
8^)
Paj
8^)
garww
New member
"There are amps that interface directly over USB".
Well, I can still MIC quiet with my VIP-1 at full distortions and one can do that with a VST amp sim, also. I remember when I got my ToneLab, I was MICing some 5x7 speaker at low levels
Well, I can still MIC quiet with my VIP-1 at full distortions and one can do that with a VST amp sim, also. I remember when I got my ToneLab, I was MICing some 5x7 speaker at low levels
Tadpui
Well-known member
After reading your situation, personally I think that you're a perfect candidate for reamping.
Early in the morning when you're at your creative peak, record silently with Guitar Rig or whatever. Doesn't have to sound great, just capture a good performance.
Later, at a more appropriate hour of the day, send the dry recorded track (with Guitar Rig disabled) to one of your amps and record it with a microphone.
As long as your interface has at least 1 line level output, you can give it a try. A reamp box makes life easier but you can get by without one at first. The main challenge is doing the routing in your DAW or your interface's control panel software. We can help with that part.
Early in the morning when you're at your creative peak, record silently with Guitar Rig or whatever. Doesn't have to sound great, just capture a good performance.
Later, at a more appropriate hour of the day, send the dry recorded track (with Guitar Rig disabled) to one of your amps and record it with a microphone.
As long as your interface has at least 1 line level output, you can give it a try. A reamp box makes life easier but you can get by without one at first. The main challenge is doing the routing in your DAW or your interface's control panel software. We can help with that part.
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boss281
New member
So I re record my dry signal through the mic'd amp. I still have to add an effect at this point, and if I'm not having good luck (yet) using amp and guitar effects software, then...what? I'm missing something...
Tadpui
Well-known member
At that point, I'd go for a stomp box or a multi effect box, if you're struggling to get VST effects to work. While reamping, you have both hands free so you can twiddle knobs as the track plays through your amp.
Or, focus on getting the software issues sorted out and use any of the many VST options suggested thus far in the thread.
garww
New member
I wouldn't bother with reamping the dry. You would be doing the big amps, anyway, when loud rules. On the other hand, using the computer as a head, you can filter the bitchin' through your speakers of choice at very modest levels with a MIC during quiet time - your ac15, or whatever has a natural digital shit filter.
I usually test amps and speakers to see how they do Hi-Fi with different cab loading, so I can MIC Hi-Fi, or, use them raw. I have lots of speakers for this, but I did buy a 8-inch Weber that had the right ribbing, and curved cone wrap just for MICing. So, during late night, I can try a speaker that is Hi-Fi-ish, or, one that has guitar range specifics. Since I'm monitoring the MIC on fones, I have a extra set of options to get my sound
I usually test amps and speakers to see how they do Hi-Fi with different cab loading, so I can MIC Hi-Fi, or, use them raw. I have lots of speakers for this, but I did buy a 8-inch Weber that had the right ribbing, and curved cone wrap just for MICing. So, during late night, I can try a speaker that is Hi-Fi-ish, or, one that has guitar range specifics. Since I'm monitoring the MIC on fones, I have a extra set of options to get my sound
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
K. I've been mostly trying to help you with the stated goal of finding passable sounds that you can jam and write to that will work on your computer, but...
1). Your computer should be able to handle at least one instance of any modern amp sim package. If it can't, it's really just a boat anchor. Hopefully it's just a little sick and you can clean up the OS and get it working, but otherwise, you're just gonna need to get a new one if you really intend on doing much of this. That doesn't actually have to be much more expensive than this pedalboard thing you're buying.
B). But then if you're really just trying to noodle and try things and right parts with the intention of eventually hacking it into something that you will then learn and play as a keeper track through a real amp - like you never intend to use these late night recordings in a final mix - then go ahead and use a pedal. It's not likely to actually sound any better than what can be done in the box, but since the box you've got can't do it, plug in a box that will. This does mean that the sound you recorded t with will be "baked in" and you won't be able to go back and experiment with different settings - even different amps - after it's recorded. But it's just a demo anyway, right? This route also "precludes" reamping. Well, you could do it, but it would be kind of like plugging the mic in front of the one amp into the other amp which can work if you want more distortion, but not if you want less.
III) I'm not sure you should plan on reamping. If you can write and learn the songs at night and then when you get the chance, just go play it through the amp, you probably should just do that. I say this not because the amp itself will actually sound enough better than the sim to matter, but because itll be loud in the room, interacting with your guitar and your gut and influencing your performance in not-subtle ways. I record everything through amp sims, but I still can't do it when my kids are sleeping because I have to pound it into the air while I'm playing.
1). Your computer should be able to handle at least one instance of any modern amp sim package. If it can't, it's really just a boat anchor. Hopefully it's just a little sick and you can clean up the OS and get it working, but otherwise, you're just gonna need to get a new one if you really intend on doing much of this. That doesn't actually have to be much more expensive than this pedalboard thing you're buying.
B). But then if you're really just trying to noodle and try things and right parts with the intention of eventually hacking it into something that you will then learn and play as a keeper track through a real amp - like you never intend to use these late night recordings in a final mix - then go ahead and use a pedal. It's not likely to actually sound any better than what can be done in the box, but since the box you've got can't do it, plug in a box that will. This does mean that the sound you recorded t with will be "baked in" and you won't be able to go back and experiment with different settings - even different amps - after it's recorded. But it's just a demo anyway, right? This route also "precludes" reamping. Well, you could do it, but it would be kind of like plugging the mic in front of the one amp into the other amp which can work if you want more distortion, but not if you want less.
III) I'm not sure you should plan on reamping. If you can write and learn the songs at night and then when you get the chance, just go play it through the amp, you probably should just do that. I say this not because the amp itself will actually sound enough better than the sim to matter, but because itll be loud in the room, interacting with your guitar and your gut and influencing your performance in not-subtle ways. I record everything through amp sims, but I still can't do it when my kids are sleeping because I have to pound it into the air while I'm playing.
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boss281
New member
....and it's been very much appreciated. The initial learning curve, was/is steep, I dove in headfirst and made a lot of mistakes (tons of demo effects without understanding a thing about what I was doing). Today I experimented with dry signal only both mic'd and plugged directly into the AI, and I'm still getting pops and other noise, plus the occasion hiccup while recording (although no terminated tracks). I need to start testing cables and such. I deleted everything having to do with recording, redownloaded Reaper and paid for it, redownloaded EZDrummer 2 and paid for that and the Blues samples (I'm committed to understanding drums), and will go through both the manual and a slew of YouTube tutorials mentioned by someone in one of these threads (KennyMania/ReaperMania). I've ordered a BOSS ME-80 for external guitar effects to go directly into the AI, and will likely buy some Amplitube amp and effects models, not sure which yet. This is my NOODLE machine, my late night and early morning "hey, that phrase in my head would sound nice over The Thrill is Gone IV chord." This is the Dell XPS L702X 17" gaming laptop purchased new in 2012, 64 bit, 6MB memory, Intel i5-2450M CPU at 2.5 GHz running Windows 7. Until now I used it as my business machine for spreadsheets, writing, and web activities. By the end of the year I will order a replacement laptop for my business activities and move the files, then wipe this hard drive, add more memory, and reinstall all the Windows 7 shit. It does NOT have drivers for Windows 10 available from Dell and never will they say. Anything produced on here will only be fodder for final recording/production on my desktop.
That desktop is a Dell XPS 8300 64 bit i7-2600 CPU 3.4Ghz with 8GB RAM. That should be plenty after I max out the RAM. My intention is to mic my guitar signals with effects that produce the tone that I want, but I'm almost certainly going to add effects for final production on this machine.
Based on everything I've been hearing in feedback hear and elsewhere, the machines I have are plenty for the bedroom recording musician. The problem is certainly tweaking the settings and optimizing the approach to recording, mixing and production. I see the workflow now, and it's just a matter of putting in a lot of time and experimentation. It's daunting, but what isn't nowadays?
Right now, I'm working on a Robin Trower-esque Sweet Little Angel, and my dry vocals made we want to shoot the computer it sounded so bad. Practice, practice...
garww
New member
I dunno what your laptop housekeeping has been like, but you might try an external drive for all the music stuff
Pinky
and The Brain...
As a backup drive, external/USB drives are good to have. But people tend to forget external/usb drives fail too and I've personally known (2) people who stored all their important data on an external drive that failed and lost EVERYTHING. Good recovery services (that will effectively transplant your magnetic platters with data into a functioning replacement) are very expensive. They *start* around $600USD and take upwards of months to see your data restored.
The best strategy is to have all the OS and program files on SSD, then a data partition or second internal platter drive, and finally an external/USB drive dedicated for backups (daily or weekly) of the OS/Data.
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garww
New member
I'm talking about housekeeping, not the residence : ) A defrag on most of my MicroSoft C(rash) drives is 8-12 hours. Assuming the computer is normally neglected, one can get a fairly ordered music file structure by adding another drive to host those files, anyway.
I normally have file segregation with drives C-G, or, up to N on occasion. I'm just thinking that the end of the year reformat is a long way away and he can at least have music files on a drive ready to go and the may be some access time improvement..
For what it's worth, I'm not buying any of the cheap ass drives they make now days. My last drive 1 purchase was a used 320 - 360, or whatever it was. Ya, SSD is a possibility. but his general issue is still gonna be MS bad file management
I normally have file segregation with drives C-G, or, up to N on occasion. I'm just thinking that the end of the year reformat is a long way away and he can at least have music files on a drive ready to go and the may be some access time improvement..
For what it's worth, I'm not buying any of the cheap ass drives they make now days. My last drive 1 purchase was a used 320 - 360, or whatever it was. Ya, SSD is a possibility. but his general issue is still gonna be MS bad file management
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
Did I miss where you said what interface you're using on the laptop? Have you messed with the buffer/latency settings in its config utility? You've got a couple threads going that kind of overlap, so I'm sorry if you've already been down that road, but if not it's where you need to look next. We usually want latency to be as low as possible, but especially with guitar you can often get away with more than you might think. 128 samples (at 44.1K sample rate) is more than good enough for anything I've ever done - even vocals and drums, but 256 isn't usually noticeable, and you might even be able to live with more than that.
First make sure you're at 44.1K. We might argue whether that enough to capture the subtleties of things like cymbals or acoustic instruments, but your electric guitar isn't probably passing much if anything even at 10K. You could sample it at 22K and still get everything. So basically, especially on a "noodle" machine, you don't want or need to set your sample rate up at 96K or whatever just because your interface will do it.
Then mess with the buffer setting. Bump it up from wherever it is to the next highest "notch" that it gives you, and then see if things run more smoothly. Reaper is pretty good about following most interface setting changes, but sometimes you still have to restart it or even the machine after you change those things just to make sure everybody's on the same page.
A single core 2.5GHz laptop I would worry about. My dual core 2.3G laptop used to be able to run SuperiorDrummer and two or three amp sims at reasonable latency, but that was more of a balancing act.
First make sure you're at 44.1K. We might argue whether that enough to capture the subtleties of things like cymbals or acoustic instruments, but your electric guitar isn't probably passing much if anything even at 10K. You could sample it at 22K and still get everything. So basically, especially on a "noodle" machine, you don't want or need to set your sample rate up at 96K or whatever just because your interface will do it.
Then mess with the buffer setting. Bump it up from wherever it is to the next highest "notch" that it gives you, and then see if things run more smoothly. Reaper is pretty good about following most interface setting changes, but sometimes you still have to restart it or even the machine after you change those things just to make sure everybody's on the same page.
A single core 2.5GHz laptop I would worry about. My dual core 2.3G laptop used to be able to run SuperiorDrummer and two or three amp sims at reasonable latency, but that was more of a balancing act.
Pinky
and The Brain...
Okay I hear ya, I didn't really get the 'housekeeping' part.
Fwiw, most newer 3.5" drives actually last longer than the older models. 2.5" (laptop) drives are also slightly more reliable, but only slightly. Shrinking the mechanical nature of disk technology to fit into a laptop form is definitely to the detriment of the drive's longevity. SSD all the way!
wuzzo
668- the neighbour of the beast
Yes. Maybe even dispense with most pedals and concentrate on a good amp. and good blues guitar.
garww
New member
I had a fuzz and Wah in the sixties, but went decades without any interest 'til about 2009. Had to have fuzz and tremolo and I've been disappointed .
Either way, I'm not sure Muddy was ever crippled by not having the right amp : ) I saw somewhere there was a Rockman "patch", but what about the Pignose and Polytone : ) hahah
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
You should be able to load any amp/cab in Amplitube and get a decent sound right off the bat. I don't think I've read where you described what the issue is, exactly, other than "usable tone" or something to that extent. I'm not sure why we're talking about latency, unless, again, I missed a comment about delayed sounds or any hiccups in the system. Like I said, I thought your concern was the tone from Amplitube, not something else. Sorry if I overlooked a comment.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
There is mention in this thread about Reaper becoming unstable and dropping out with the plugs loaded, and this poster has at least one other thread complaining about symptoms which sound a lot like buffer underruns to me.
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boss281
New member
Thank you, yes, two problems. The big one is Reaper is dropping the track in the middle of recording with and without plug ins (sometimes picking back up, sometimes the track stops recording period with the other tracks continuing on their merry way). The other problem is the DEMOs I've downloaded appear to not only further contribute to the problem, but frankly sound like absolute crap, compared to what I can pull off a mic'd Fender Pro Junior III or Peavey Classic 30 and a distortion/OD pedal. My headphones and monitors aren't the top end, but I think my mic'd tone comes crystal clear when using them, the sim'd amp/pedals are crackly crap. It's like the signal is both impaired and the nuclear treble booster is on.
So, is it the software configuration? I need to read up on how to test buffer sizes, latency control, recording frequencies, etc. It's all greek to someone that just started. Is is the hardware configuration? From what I'm reading, others have systems with much LESS power and are older tech, yet do fine recording 8 or more tracks simultaneously.
I can't begin to have fun yet because I'm struggling and dependent on wading through 30 minute tutorials that MAY have a tidbit I can use. Someone sort of gave me a left field comment that maybe I wasn't taking the time to invest in the learning curve: I can assure you I am. I retired in October of last year at the age of 59, and have invested my mornings the last month (or whenever I started this new endeavor) working the problem. Imagine being dropped into Calculus class, you are the only one in there, and no teacher, just scribbling on the blackboard. Calculus isn't hard, it's just involved. And having guidance helps. The internet is truly a web, it's not directed. I even find the vendor tutorials kind of half ass and someone out of order that makes sense to me.
Anyhow, ReaperMania and ReaperTV seem to have some material on YouTube, so I'm going back to square one on this laptop. I just bought a second Presonus AudioBox for my more powerful desktop (more memory, i7 vs i5, etc) in my more "formal" emerging music studio occupying the now empty spare bedroom, and will try Reaper there. Do I have the same problems? If I don't, is it memory, HD speed (disk vs SSD, etc)? Lots of variables.
Rant off. As always, I welcome the comments and criticisms...
So, is it the software configuration? I need to read up on how to test buffer sizes, latency control, recording frequencies, etc. It's all greek to someone that just started. Is is the hardware configuration? From what I'm reading, others have systems with much LESS power and are older tech, yet do fine recording 8 or more tracks simultaneously.
I can't begin to have fun yet because I'm struggling and dependent on wading through 30 minute tutorials that MAY have a tidbit I can use. Someone sort of gave me a left field comment that maybe I wasn't taking the time to invest in the learning curve: I can assure you I am. I retired in October of last year at the age of 59, and have invested my mornings the last month (or whenever I started this new endeavor) working the problem. Imagine being dropped into Calculus class, you are the only one in there, and no teacher, just scribbling on the blackboard. Calculus isn't hard, it's just involved. And having guidance helps. The internet is truly a web, it's not directed. I even find the vendor tutorials kind of half ass and someone out of order that makes sense to me.
Anyhow, ReaperMania and ReaperTV seem to have some material on YouTube, so I'm going back to square one on this laptop. I just bought a second Presonus AudioBox for my more powerful desktop (more memory, i7 vs i5, etc) in my more "formal" emerging music studio occupying the now empty spare bedroom, and will try Reaper there. Do I have the same problems? If I don't, is it memory, HD speed (disk vs SSD, etc)? Lots of variables.
Rant off. As always, I welcome the comments and criticisms...