Black Mirrors - pop/rock/alternative, feedback?

[andrushkiwt]

Hey everyone, please give a listen and comment on the mix, if ya can.

Eh, a little different one here as it's certainly softer, but still a bit of screaming stuff here and there as I like to add in. I wrote the music last month and have battled the mid-range during mixing. There's 3 sets of guitars, doubled lead vox, then 2 pair of background vox, equaling a lot of things to balance in the 500-3k range. I hope I made all of those elements distinguishable, but I'm sure it could be better.





Everywhere you look,
every heart you feel,
the flowers you dispose,
tell you what is real.

When she follows the winding road,
I'll trace her steps to find our field
of black mirrors and things we know,
then our hearts can begin to heal.

This place is desperately
trapping all we have -
the space that's in between
our tired, breaking hands...

Alone you save the night,
it seemed so long ago.
Now, everything's all right..
I thought it all worked out,
I never wanted it this way.

We'll have it all. I heard about you.

Your picture's on the door,
I thought it all worked out,
I never wanted it this way.

 

[Nola]

I liked the softer style because it allows for a wider range of dynamics, which you took advantage of with big choruses.

The amp sims sound really nice during that intro. But when the vocal comes in, it sounds dry relative to the guitars. Or, if not dry, just not "the same space" (cliche, I know). It has that thing going on where it sounds like it's sitting on top of the music rather than blended in (only noticing it during the verses). Usually that's volume or reverb, but sometimes EQing space for it. I can't tell which it is in this case, and let others chime in because I'm on zero sleep.

Oh, the vocal also has a slight phase/combing effect, most notably during the chorus sections. I'm not sure if that's intentional or the byproduct of double takes.

Nice drum beat at the end. I like weird things like that.

 

[JohnnyAmato]

I like it. I don't hear any mid-range problems on my end, sounds great. Guitars sound nice, so does your voice. Nice panning work on all the different guitar sounds and tracks. The high-hat at times sounds just a tad too far left, but nothing wrong with it, just a little farther left than I usually have it. With the second listen, I think it's during the verses. But again, still sounds great. The crashes during the chorus are great, soft and spacious in a good way. Snare and kick could maybe be a touch louder, but still works great as is. Awesome job.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Oh, the vocal also has a slight phase/combing effect, most notably during the chorus sections. I'm not sure if that's intentional or the byproduct of double takes.

both, lol. It's an intentional byproduct of double takes. Plus, I have a stereo spread chorus copying the main take, then the double is about 10db under the main. The stereo chorus is a little lower than the double at about -12 from the main take. I like the swirly chorus sound and I try to make it somewhat obvious, but still pleasant. I'll work on integrating it better next time. Thanks a lot sir

 

[andrushkiwt]

I like it. I don't hear any mid-range problems on my end, sounds great. Guitars sound nice, so does your voice. Nice panning work on all the different guitar sounds and tracks. The high-hat at times sounds just a tad too far left, but nothing wrong with it, just a little farther left than I usually have it. With the second listen, I think it's during the verses. But again, still sounds great. The crashes during the chorus are great, soft and spacious in a good way. Snare and kick could maybe be a touch louder, but still works great as is. Awesome job.

hey thanks man. Your guitar work is always really good, so I appreciate that and it means a lot. The panning is just LCR, absolutely nothing panned anywhere else. I tried to distinguish the guitars via tone rather than panning, so yet another reason why I was concerned about the midrange. Also, that's why the hats are far L. I always put them there. Drummers perspective, I guess.

Now that I think about it, the OH's in Superior Drummer are most likely panned a particular way and unless I went in and moved each cymbal, they are probably spread out through the stereo field. I don't think I touched them though.

thanks a lot

 

[JohnnyAmato]

Gotcha. Well, the drums sound great, regardless. I obviously still have quite a bit to learn about Superior Drummer, as my drums don't sound quite as good as yours yet. I've only had it a short time, so I'm learning as I go, only have that one first recording I'm still tweaking out. New to Pro Tools, too, so I'm learning it all at once.

Haven't gotten any expansion packs yet for SD, just used the stock kit from the Avatar library that comes with it. You don't have to tell me the kit, but what library did you use on this one?

 

[andrushkiwt]

Gotcha. Well, the drums sound great, regardless. I obviously still have quite a bit to learn about Superior Drummer, as my drums don't sound quite as good as yours yet. I've only had it a short time, so I'm learning as I go, only have that one first recording I'm still tweaking out. New to Pro Tools, too, so I'm learning it all at once.

Haven't gotten any expansion packs yet for SD, just used the stock kit from the Avatar library that comes with it. You don't have to tell me the kit, but what library did you use on this one?

Mine came with NY Avatar as well. I almost always resort to the Black Beauty from that kit, but the rest of the kit is from the Rock Warehouse. I use that kits' hats, cymbals, toms, etc.. But that black beauty in NY Avatar is my go-to. Nothing else comes close to it, in my opinion.

I mix in the DAW. I just set my kit up in the SD vst, do the panning there, then EQ and compress etc in the DAW after I bounce the drums out to wav's. I usually pick the closest grooves and then tweak them tediously. Like, it takes me weeks to finish the drums. I move every hi hat and snare by hand. I found that the parameters for humanizing aren't very random after all. I like to move my beats ahead, not behind, most of the time. So I really get in there and move every single hit a portion forward or backward, then I adjust velocities of everything too. I write most fills by hand.

I'm pretty sure you posted 2 tracks here recently, no?

 

[JohnnyAmato]

Yea, I posted my first attempt at a PT/SD recording a few days ago. Still have to learn how to bounce the drums to wav's so I can tweak them better in PT. I'm sure it's not difficult, just haven't taken the time to learn that step yet. What you're hearing on my recording is drums still straight from SD.

I played the beat on a midi-controller for the first few bars of the song, then wrote the rest by hand, with some copy and paste at times. Took me one whole night just doing the drums, got to laying the instrument tracks the next day. I'll get to tweaking the drums out more probably tonight after the game, took a few days off from mixing 'cuz I played a loud show Friday night.

The main issue I'm still having with my tune is the damn bass and getting it eq'd properly. Once I get that squared away better, I'll start to lay down the vocals.

 

[TripleM]

I thought the clean-ish guitars were a little too pointy. They're covering the vocal a little bit.

The vocal sounds great. Words here and there are getting lost.

Drums sound great.

The bass sound is OK. A little "bouncy" - like bouncing a basketball.

When the chorus kicks in, things feel a little cramped. The limiter is really working overtime.

I'm being overly critical. In general it sounds very good.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

Good as usual.

The only real critiques I have on the first listen is that you probably don't need to emote that much in the down verse vocals, and some more bgvox on the chorus would probably help give vocals more oomph overall. Both issues sort of affect the dynamic range I think.

I like the filtered drums at the end.

 

[timvracer]

It's all been said, but I just want to say I really enjoyed this listen. Great song and performance. Talent!

Not sure how you produce so much, really impressive. Just giving "Last One In the Room" another listen... great song!
Are you gonna put this stuff on iTunes as an album? I'd buy it.

 

[DM60]

Listened on headphones, I didn't hear any mid issues. I do agree the guitars are bit sharp sounding.

Dude, another freaking nice tune. I wish I could give you something negative just so you don't get the big head , but I have nothing.

 

[andrushkiwt]

When the chorus kicks in, things feel a little cramped. The limiter is really working overtime.

I'm being overly critical. In general it sounds very good.

It's really not! Tell me what's giving you that impression, I really want to figure that out. Is there a particular instrument that seems to be smashing or something? It's only getting -3.5 on the loudest part and input of about 4db.

I'm going to guess it's a compressor somewhere else, maybe on the kick...or how much I used on the bass, perhaps? I really want to get to the bottom of that and see what it is exactly. Thanks for the listen and comment 3M, much appreciated man

 

[andrushkiwt]

The only real critiques I have on the first listen is that you probably don't need to emote that much in the down verse vocals, and some more bgvox on the chorus would probably help give vocals more oomph overall. Both issues sort of affect the dynamic range I think.

Figuring out the emotion in the lyrics and how to emphasize them was a last second thing - I didn't get to practice singing this one out loud until recording time. I have a bad habit of that. It's all in my head until I get a second to sing it. I can totally understand that though, I did make the vocal performance rather dynamic in emotion.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Not sure how you produce so much, really impressive. Just giving "Last One In the Room" another listen... great song!
Are you gonna put this stuff on iTunes as an album? I'd buy it.

It's basically all I do on my days off from work when not with the gf. I woke up 30 mins ago and will start working on something else for the rest of the night.

I don't want to put anything up for sale that is sub-par quality. If I can get these mixed better, I have some mastering people I've met here I would be interested in working with. And unless I figure out how to market to a wider audience, I'm not sure it'd be worth it really. BUT, that does mean a lot to hear. Thanks for that dude. Last One In The Room is one of my favorites, for sure. Glad you like it.

 

[Nola]

It's really not! Tell me what's giving you that impression, I really want to figure that out. Is there a particular instrument that seems to be smashing or something? It's only getting -3.5 on the loudest part and input of about 4db.

I'm going to guess it's a compressor somewhere else, maybe on the kick...or how much I used on the bass, perhaps? I really want to get to the bottom of that and see what it is exactly. Thanks for the listen and comment 3M, much appreciated man

I'm VERY sensitive to limiting and didn't notice any issue, fwiw.

I just listened again and still don't notice any limiting issue. I do think the bass can come down 2db, though, upon second listen. I think between -3db to -6db compression is fine for bass. It's one of the few things I will aggressively compress. Yours sounds in that ballpark. If you "mastered" it after the fact the added compression can really mess up the low end, so that's something to always watch out for.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Dude, another freaking nice tune. I wish I could give you something negative just so you don't get the big head , but I have nothing.

Well, maybe it just means I'm getting closer to a good sound because of all the feedback and help from HR . Def room for improvement though. I do often wonder what it'd sound like without sims and programmed drums, and in a real vocal booth with a nice mic, mixed on a nice console with outboard effects.

 

[andrushkiwt]

I think between -3db to -6db compression is fine for bass.

...not even close. that's my master limiter a the very end I'm talking about. The bass is getting about -12 db. Plus it has a compressor pedal in Amplitube at the start of the chain.

 

[Nola]

...not even close. that's my master limiter a the very end I'm talking about. The bass is getting about -12 db. Plus it has a compressor pedal in Amplitube at the start of the chain.

Oh I wasn't trying to guess what was on it. I was just saying -6db can still sound good on bass to me. I like a little movement in the bass and not when it's 2d/flat sounding, tho, so I don't like to compress it more than that. -12 seems excessive to me, but to each their own, and it didn't stand out to me. Why compress it that much, tho? Is the playing that uneven that it needs so much compression? Maybe I'm missing something but to me compression on bass is only to even out the few aggressive plucks in each bass performance (for us non-virtuosos). The virtuoso players don't even need compression b/c they have so much finger control and control the dynamics there.

 

[andrushkiwt]

The virtuoso players don't even need compression b/c they have so much finger control and control the dynamics there.

yeah, i'm far from that! no virtuoso bass player here. i had to watch an online video about using my pinky for the G, and I said F it after an hour!

It's just a genre thing, and to flatten it out. Make it phatter (with a ph) throughout the song. So, it's always present and keeping the groove going. I think it's more in line with the genre/style I like. And most of it is probably my playing.