I know not much about amps and how they work. can someone explain to me about using to much pre gain? Is this a knob on fancy amps or something lol? Im not sure how gain stagin works in any amp, not even my own. I probably should.
The are pedals that can increase the signal level which in turn drives the amp a little harder. Some guys rely on this for additional gain and/or distortion.
Pre gain is gain from the tubes in the pre amp as opposed to the power amp.I know not much about amps and how they work. can someone explain to me about using to much pre gain? Is this a knob on fancy amps or something lol? Im not sure how gain stagin works in any amp, not even my own. I probably should.
Ahhh, I knew people used pedals to push the amps I just didnt know it was referred to as such that was previously mentioned. I use one as well from time to time but just for a little extra push. I wouldnt be able to tell if someone was using to much though by just listening. Anyone have an obvious example?
I know not much about amps and how they work. can someone explain to me about using to much pre gain? Is this a knob on fancy amps or something lol? Im not sure how gain stagin works in any amp, not even my own. I probably should.
Or get something like a classic Fender combo that has only one knob, and turn it up until you like what you hear.
Except that definitely was not your typical amp pre-gain. There was no preamp gain on the VH amp. That was cranked amp near meltdown gain.
There was a Variac, though, wasn't there?
I guess it must be something besides the tube that affects the pre tone.
Do you think this is more of a modern amp thing? I've tried quite a few amps out over the last few months, a Randall 50, Laney Ironheart, a couple of others and my own amp. None of them seem to get a huge amount of breakup from the power amp. Although if you have the pregain high and the master low they sound like shit.Some amps have very very tight power sections and get the meat of their tone from the preamps. They're designed to resist massive power section meltdown unless they are truly and literally cranked. If an amp is designed to work that way, then it can sound very good with tons of preamp gain.
It's not a modern amp thing. Ancient Plexis have very tight power sections. Those amps stay pretty clean-ish until you really twist the dial. They're famous for their "power tube breakup" sound, but you gotta really push them to get it there. Now they changed over the years with bright caps and stuff to get the preamp breaking up sooner, but in general those old amps have tight power sections that resist breakup. The reason separate preamp and master vol controls exist today was an attempt to get "that" sound at a lower volume because those non-master amps are brutally loud. I've personally never met an amp that sounds as good at low volume as it does at bigger volume. That's not to say every amp has to be cranked, because some sound like shit when dimed too, but you gotta find that tipping point when the power section and speakers start to play their role as well. IMO a bad low volume sound isn't necessarily the fault of the amp. It can be, but not always. A lot of times you're just not pushing the speaker(s) enough.Do you think this is more of a modern amp thing? I've tried quite a few amps out over the last few months, a Randall 50, Laney Ironheart, a couple of others and my own amp. None of them seem to get a huge amount of breakup from the power amp. Although if you have the pregain high and the master low they sound like shit.
Yes, that. Especially with recording. Louder with a little less gain is usually better than quieter with more gain. Live? Sure, dime everything. Gain is good live. But when miking a cab for tracking tracks, louder and a little cleaner usually yields bigger better tones. For me, the louder I go, the less gain I want. On my JCM 800, it's savagely loud, but when dicking around for fun, I have the gain dimed and the master very low. Sounds okay, that's not what the amp is for, but it's okay. But for real use, live or recording, I'll obviously turn it way up and turn the gain back down a few ticks. Sounds way better.Its almost like as you crank the master, its able to "absorb" some of that preamp gain and stop it sounding shit, even though its still very distorted - I can't think of a better way of explaining it. Conversely, as you get louder, you need less gain to sound heavy though.
Yeah, my amp certainly sounds better louder with everything else being equal. There does seem to be a tipping point though, above which it starts to get a bit flubby. I've got it to a happy medium now where I can record in the house (without pissing off the neighbours too much) and get a decent tone. Its uncomfortable in the room if you don't have headphones on, but its not so loud its gonna leave your ears ringing after 1/2 an hour.
Right, that's a good thing. For all of my master vol amps, the happy spot seems to start around 4 or 5 on the vol knob. That's just where they come to life. As loud as I like to be, I'm not cranking everything all the time. I'll dime the Plexis because they're just glorious, but the JMP/JCM master vol amps pretty much live between 5 and 7 for recording. They're still loud as shit, but they're not literally cranked. They're not high gain either, but they work great for me. I couldn't be happier with my own guitar tones.
Loudness is relative anyway and in our world of home recording it's obviously dependent on many factors like wives, kids, girlfriends, boyfriends, neighbors, cops, etc. I don't think anyone that knows anything would disagree though that louder is pretty much always better.
Through much trial, error, and tone thread lessons, I've found the same thing. Somewhere around 12:00 on the master volume, my JCM800 is very very happy. Past about 3:00 though, it starts to get a little too loud for its own good. Maybe the speakers are pushed beyond their capabilities? Output transformer maybe? It just gets grainy, harsh, and distorted in an unpleasant way.
Again, after much hand-holding in the tone thread, I think I finally understand the preamp gain on that amp as well. I like how Marshall did this control. It helps counteract the tendency towards thin and fizzy by gradually reducing the bright cap's involvement as the preamp gain is turned up. So it gets more saturated, but it gets fatter. I think that's pretty brilliant.