Alternative/Indie/Rock Mix Advice

  • Thread starter Thread starter adam-digital
  • Start date Start date
A

adam-digital

New member
Hey all, I've been doing some home recording for bands I've played in for years, but I've always struggled to produce mixes that are both full, and dynamic sounding.

My mixes have a tendency to sound too 'clean' and therefore empty. I think I've been slowly improving as i go, but there is only so much i feel i can develop just by reading and doing. I think its time for some actual interaction and feedback from other people that know what they are doing.

I'm looking for criticism, tips, helpful advice, whatever, on this mix:
View attachment Right Beside You.mp3

Any and all criticisms or opinions are welcome!
This is all a learning and developing experience for me.

- Adam
 

Attachments

It sounds like you're recording things too hot. That clean guitar is too far up in the mix.
 
Agree with Nola...
- what MP3 bitrate is this (can contribute to sound of the tune)
- very loud so I assume you used a limiter, this may have introduced distortion if you pushed it past a certain point
- lead vocal is too dominant, unable to distinguish anything during the singing, I can hear bits of it like cymbal crashes sort of but it's mostly all buried
- lead vocal is very distorted (but so is everything else) so depends on whether you want it distorted. I would prefer a clean vocal sound
Song is good I like it - mix is (see above)
 
thanks for the feedback so far guys!

bitrate is 256kbps

the tracks are recorded pretty hot, 'ive only recently started to learn about not pushing inputs as far as they go, habitually i would track as hot as i could without clipping. So none of the inputs clip, but they peak at -0.1. What RMS or peak would you recommend i shoot for on inputs when tracking?

the lead vocals do have some distortion on them, but only in the interlude. they do however have several layered tracks throughout. I think there are 3 in the verses, and 6 in the chorus, not including harmonies

i dont have limiters on any tracks, but i do have compression on a few, and used the Waves L2 plugin on the master, perhaps im pushing the L2 way too much? That might be part of my problem with getting mixes sounding full without losing dynamics.
 
Using advice from the guys here I try to track at no more than -18db on my DAW meter. So yours are too hot. Headroom will give you a little bit more to work with. That's probably the problem but you can try and play around with the L2 (I don't have that so I don't know what it can do or how it affects things).
And 256 is a good bitrate 320 is better but 256 works for me. Plus there's upload limits here of 10 Mb I think.
 
I'm not an engineer so I can't help you there, but I listened to it, and I really liked the lyric. It reached me. I couldn't make out all of the verses but I'd like to see them if possible.
 
Yeah, volume control is gonna be the big thing.

The drums - particularly kick/snare - are probably too quiet (or rather, everything else is too loud). It also sounds like you've got a ton of 'verb on the snare, which will make it harder to pop out in the mix.
The vocals are getting some distortion on them. Especially on the "S"s.
There were one or two instances where the vocal takes weren't quite in sync. They're close, but just slightly off.

Are you going for that Breaking Benjamin/modern hard rock sound then? (That's the vibe I'm getting from the vox at least)
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Are you going for that Breaking Benjamin/modern hard rock sound then? (That's the vibe I'm getting from the vox at least)
Click to expand...

hmmm....maybe in the vocal tone, but definitely not in the music. More like Fall Out Boy/Panic kinda stuff with a touch of Linkin Park. Good song, the mix doesn't give it justice IMO. I agree the snare has too much verb. I agree with what everyone else said about the levels. I thought the bass had the best sound of everything in this mix.
 
Hey all, thanks for the fantastic feedback. After listening to the song so many times it's hard for me to hear these things, but i do notice them once pointed out.

Since i've tracked most of the instruments really hot, i've pulled back the levels on everything so they aren't driving the brick-wall limiter (Waves L2) on the master bus as hard, i think it sounds a bit cleaner, less noisy. Probably not perfect without re-tracking everything at a lower level though.

The snare has always bugged me, its got a very noisy ring. i dont have any reverb on it, but i've put an expander on the track to try and downplay the ring and emphasize the transients, seems to be less obnoxious to me now.

i've also pulled back on the vox double tracks to clean up the sound, and used a different EQ and verb on the harmony in the chorus to try and get that to be differentiated a bit from the lead.

ive also pulled back the clean verse guitar

as far as sound that im going for, i think thats part of my mental block, i dont really know what im trying to create as far as sound, other than getting my mixes sounding good

here is an updated mix, hopefully im moving in the right direction at least, though i know it's not there yet.

really, thanks a ton to everyone for taking the time to listen and critique, i am already learning quite a bit!
 

Attachments

I understand the "in your face' approach regarding the attitude of this song, but this is a good tune that's needs to breath. Try metering your input at around -12db rms, and no more than -3db peak with your limiter.
 
I think it breathes a little better, the new file. So, the snare shines through more now, but I think a beefier sounding snare would sound better here. In the "so you're starting to sway..." section, I'm really wanting a hear more fullness out of the guitars, like a heavier distorted part that stops when the chorus kicks in, as opposed to the dominant clean guitars- the chorus sounds great with the reggae-ish vibe, but to me some sections need some "substance" underneath. Like, 1:26.. that little interlude is a bit hollow and empty to me. It's like, the intensity of the drums aren't matching the music right there. This is why I think an added heavier guitar for some parts would help thicken it up. Most might say it sounds fine how it is, but i'm sure a side-by-side comparison would be in favor of the filled-out version.

just my opinion. mix is def better this time around. what is this project...all your own playing and recording?
 
That first snare hit is a little loud - I would suppress that just a bit.
The bass seems loud in first verse but then it blends in nicely.
Tell the bass player I like his riff in the chorus - nice musical lift there.
The bridge just before the last chorus - the vocals seem to fade a bit (words not as intelligible).

Overall though I really like this mix. All the changes you've done have really improved the mix and brought out all the plusses of the song.
I think the most noticeable improvement is the vocals - cleaner, clearer and, just better sounding.
:D:D:D:D
 
Are you familiar with "The Loudness War?" It's basically how music is mixed or mastered for the last decade or so where there is little dynamic range in the music meaning specifically every part is cranked up to maximum volume or when you look at the waveform of the song there do not appear to be any parts that are quieter than others. I think the way that people get more dynamic range is not recording everything with maximum gain and not trying to turn everything up after recording.
 
andrushkiwt said:
I think it breathes a little better, the new file. So, the snare shines through more now, but I think a beefier sounding snare would sound better here.
Click to expand...
cool. how would you recommend i beef up the snare without tracking a new drum, is there something i can do to EQ it?

andrushkiwt said:
what is this project...all your own playing and recording?
Click to expand...
its a band ive been playing with for a while called Cable Street - Cable Street - CableStreetMusic.com

ido1957 said:
That first snare hit is a little loud - I would suppress that just a bit.
The bass seems loud in first verse but then it blends in nicely.
Tell the bass player I like his riff in the chorus - nice musical lift there.
The bridge just before the last chorus - the vocals seem to fade a bit (words not as intelligible).
Click to expand...
Thanks, i'll make those tweaks. The first snare hit has a record scratch behind it, but its a bit lost, im thinking bring the snare down a touch and let the scratch come through.
And i'll tell the bassist! We like a really musical bass line, brit-pop inspired.

ido1957 said:
Overall though I really like this mix. All the changes you've done have really improved the mix and brought out all the plusses of the song.
I think the most noticeable improvement is the vocals - cleaner, clearer and, just better sounding.
Click to expand...
awesome, thanks to everyone's help im moving in the right direction it seems!
 
I like the snare the way it is. It breaks through the mix and keeps the beat up front, which I believe is critical for a tune like this.

I heard the first mix and thought it was crushed too hard. Then I read some comments and saw the updated mix. Much better.

So good song and performance. Not something I would typically listen to, but I enjoyed it. I think the bass could come up a hair. Other than that, pretty tight, man.
Come up with 11 more of these and put out your CD!!!
 
Chili said:
I like the snare the way it is. It breaks through the mix and keeps the beat up front, which I believe is critical for a tune like this.

I heard the first mix and thought it was crushed too hard. Then I read some comments and saw the updated mix. Much better.

So good song and performance. Not something I would typically listen to, but I enjoyed it. I think the bass could come up a hair. Other than that, pretty tight, man.
Come up with 11 more of these and put out your CD!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks Chili, we have a bunch of songs part-way through the recording process, and some that i want to remix with everything i've learned over the last year and here.
 
hey Adam, it's still distorting so i'd just re-record whatever track is doing that. the time you spend trying to make clipping listenable could be spend just redoing those tracks. in the long run it's less time and effort. The signals were recorded too hot and lack information so they'll never be fixed by lowering the levels.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top