The New Tone Thread

[minerman]

People are incredibly stupid. Marshall people might be the stupidest. Lol. They have so many rules and regulations about what matters and what doesn't. Some clones are acceptable, some aren't. A Metro clone is okay, a Ceriatone isn't. Sozo caps are okay, but Orange Drops don't sound right. Insanity! What the fucking fuck? I had a dude at a gig a while back tell me that my 1979 JMP 2204 is devalued because it's not in it's original headbox. He's right, it isn't, and I could not give less a shit about that. I'll put that fucker in a shoe box and it will still sound bad ass.

Yep, complete dumb-ass bullshit to me...The guy who started that shit-storm is actually a great player, has some great sounding gear, but I lost all respect for him because of that dumb shit. You'd have a field-day with him over his clips too...When he posts a clip, he uses his phone & you can hear the strings on his guitar are about as loud as the amp itself...He's got recording gear, but his excuse for not posting a properly mic'd clip is " 'studio trickery' often masks the true tone of one's amp"...

JDOD: Greg beat me to it on the ECC83/12AX7 thing, they're the same thing....

 

[minerman]

Another weird encounter: I had my Angus SG at a gig recently and a guy from one of the other bands asked me if I was going to play it. I said "probably not because I'm gonna play the other guitar" which was my Hallmark Mosrite clone. He said that was a good thing because he'd never let an Angus SG leave the house. These attitudes blow my mind. It's a guitar. I play it. I'm not gonna smash it against the stage, so what the fuck is the big deal?

I don't get that shit either, I mean, if I'm gonna drop a grand on a fuckin' guitar, you can bet your ass I'm gonna play it. I didn't buy the motherfucker to look at...WTF???

 

[Greg_L]

Here's my 1979 2204 in it's devalued state, sitting on top of an 8x10.


He's a 1979 2204 in it's proper great looking headbox.

 

[jonny deep]

I don't care. My 2204 is in a regular old Plexi style headbox with the small script logo. It's not like it's in some weird box that looks goofy. It looks like a Plexi-era Marshall. I've been thinking about getting a "correct" aftermarket headbox because I really love the look of those late 70s Marshall heads with the big white piping and shit, but it's just a headbox. I'm not worried about it's original value.

Another weird encounter: I had my Angus SG at a gig recently and a guy from one of the other bands asked me if I was going to play it. I said "probably not because I'm gonna play the other guitar" which was my Hallmark Mosrite clone. He said that was a good thing because he'd never let an Angus SG leave the house. These attitudes blow my mind. It's a guitar. I play it. I'm not gonna smash it against the stage, so what the fuck is the big deal?

I've come up against similar things when I've been buying vinyl recently - because people put so much value in stuff, you can't find some records from my youth for less than £150. I can't pay that for a record I'm going to use. So people just have collections of records they can't use for fear that it reduces the value. I don't get it.

 

[Greg_L]

I've come up against similar things when I've been buying vinyl recently - because people put so much value in stuff, you can't find some records from my youth for less than £150. I can't pay that for a record I'm going to use. So people just have collections of records they can't use for fear that it reduces the value. I don't get it.

I get it with some things that are really valuable though. If I had a real 1950s Les Paul, I probably wouldn't take it to the skeezy gigs that I play.

My dad has a Colt Python .357 Magnum revolver that he bought the year I was born. I think he paid like 200 dollars for it. It's now worth about 4 grand to collectors. He doesn't take it to the gun range. I can understand that. You just have to draw the line somewhere with some things.

 

[jonny deep]

I get it with some things that are really valuable though. If I had a real 1950s Les Paul, I probably wouldn't take it to the skeezy gigs that I play.

My dad has a Colt Python .357 Magnum revolver that he bought the year I was born. I think he paid like 200 dollars for it. It's now worth about 4 grand to collectors. He doesn't take it to the gun range. I can understand that. You just have to draw the line somewhere with some things.

That's what I mean by not being able to buy a £150 record - I wouldn't be able to play it, so what's the point of having it.

If I owned something that became very valuable, I guess I'd stop using it and being really careful with it, but I don't really own anything that would become so valuable - I buy cheap, mass-produced furniture, for example. I buy quality electronics, but they always depreciate. I guess a couple of my guitars might be worth something if I keep them in good condition for 40 years.

 

[Greg_L]

That's what I mean by not being able to buy a £150 record - I wouldn't be able to play it, so what's the point of having it.

If I owned something that became very valuable, I guess I'd stop using it and being really careful with it, but I don't really own anything that would become so valuable - I buy cheap, mass-produced furniture, for example. I buy quality electronics, but they always depreciate. I guess a couple of my guitars might be worth something if I keep them in good condition for 40 years.

Right. I have a GTO sitting in my garage that is now quite valuable, but I'm not gonna sell it. It will be mine till I die....or if something horrible happens and I'm about to lose my house or something. I don't really think about material things as investments. I have actual investments as investments.

 

[JDOD]

Here's my 1979 2204 in it's devalued state, sitting on top of an 8x10.


He's a 1979 2204 in it's proper great looking headbox.

That glow in the dark headstock will really devalue that guitar.

 

[rayc]

I get a laugh from the new vinyl LP converts who are in it for the "sound" yet are playing the things on turntables that have one speaker right beside it and another in a corner etc etc etc. I'll be pleased when the fad eases back to reality & I can afford to buy albums again.
As someone who only owns 1 "name" guitar, (Fender 12 string acoustic) & one "name" amp (Marshall Superbass) both of which get flogged to death for periods of time, I find the worship of gear as artifacts rather than tools rather odd. Then again I find modding "name" gear just as odd.

 

[Lt. Bob]

if you don't use it then it's a POS IMO.

I have a Pink Floyd album that's worth a couple of grand ...... I played it just a few weeks ago and if I feel like hearing it again I'll play it again.
Of course, I DO have quality playback gear and that really doesn't harm the record no matter what some may say. I have a Sumiko cartridge on an AudioQuest arm on a VPI table and it's all carefully aligned and set-up.
But if all I had was some plastic POS 'table I'd still play it.

I have a Stinnett guitar that's the only one there is in the entire world. I wouldn't take $10k for it .... Sunday I used it for an outside gig that was sweaty and it rained during most of the gig so water was managing to get to the guitar and it had that condensation all over it ..... I had to bring it home and open the case and blow a fan on it to dry it out.
If it loses value then fuck it ..... same with my records. I have them 'cause I like them, I'm not planning on retiring on the sale prices of these things.
And to be valuable a record HAS to be *mint* and usually even sealed, unopened, unplayed records aren't mint ..... about the best a record is ever graded is Very Good ++ so how do you navigate that?

Plus, in most cases, an object being worth a certain amount is not the same thing as actually getting that much for it.
Try getting what a diamond is worth sometime! LOL ..... good luck with that!

And values can change suddenly ...... my Marshall 6101 was worth almost 2 grand before 2008 when the economy crashed ..... now I'd do good to get 6 or 7 hundred for it. ...... some of the first things to drop in value were collectibles.

 

[ecc83]

All amps are a ripoff of something else. How are you being ripped off?

I agree Greg, in the sense that there are only SO many ways to build an amp with triode and pentodes! We also know that Marshalls were a circuit rip of the early Fenders who themselves just copied valve makers applications (and everyone has copied the "mistakes" ever since!) .

But. You can see from the pictures that the Bugger is an almost total copy of the HT-20 and they even claim to have developed a "USA to "UK" tone control, i.e. "our" ISF.

They have done much the same with the HT-5 head.

Ok: OT. Valve numbers. The nomenclature used by Mullard was a code. E is 6.3V heater, C is triode (two Cs for a double) 8 is the base type (yeah! NINE pin Noval ) and the last digit is the electronic type, e.g a "3" has a mu of 100 and an Ra of 60kOhms.

In the Brimar/US system 12 is the heater volts, can be both, and A is triode. X gives the electronic properties. 'S'easy when you know how!

Back in the (49yrs ago) day I must have had upward of 200 valve types in my head and all their pinouts. I also had the card numbers in there for most of the popular valves for the Mullard valve testing machine!

Dave.

 

[Tadpui]

Bugera is made by Behringer, and Behri has stolen pretty much every design they've ever produced. They're cheap entry level stuff, and none of the big box music stores can afford to not sell them since the majority of the business they do is selling people their first guitar or amp or interface, etc. I don't like it, but that's just the way it is...

 

[Greg_L]

That glow in the dark headstock will really devalue that guitar.

It glows with awesomeness!

The finish on that guitar is great. It's got a lot of flake in the paint. It pops under any light.

Derp

 

[Greg_L]

I agree Greg, in the sense that there are only SO many ways to build an amp with triode and pentodes! We also know that Marshalls were a circuit rip of the early Fenders who themselves just copied valve makers applications (and everyone has copied the "mistakes" ever since!) .

But. You can see from the pictures that the Bugger is an almost total copy of the HT-20 and they even claim to have developed a "USA to "UK" tone control, i.e. "our" ISF.

They have done much the same with the HT-5 head.

Yeah that is pretty lame. It's not really surprising though. Like Tadpui said, Behringer is not well known for their original designs or high quality. I don't know what "Bugera" actually means, but I always thought they were trying to sneakily sound a little like Bogner, which are good, but overpriced amps.

 

[ShanPeyton]

Everyone should just get a Peavy Rage and STFU.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

I never knew that Bugera was part of Behringer. It would explain a lot.

 

[ecc83]

I never knew that Bugera was part of Behringer. It would explain a lot.

Oh yes! I thought at one point they were getting better and had left the cloning behind them but, Old Habits!!???

BTW! Speaking of Bellringers. Are you ever going to PM me so's we can organize you getting this thing?

Dave.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Dude ...... do you maybe have a little Klingon blood in ya'?

 

[Greg_L]

I have no idea what that means.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I have no idea what that means.

Sorry .... it's a Star Trek reference ..... you kinda have the look of a proud Klingon Warrior ..... if you're not a fan I can see where it would make no sense!