Blind test about digital and analog guitar tones for you guys to do

[wavewarrior]

It's a complicated machine and I'm not sure, unless I had a full time guitar tech, I'd ever use it live... but people do... As a recording tool, however, in my situation, it's a goddamn miracle...

If you're an undecisive mofo who loves noodling endlessly and experimenting with thousands of different amps and guitar tones, then you'll never finish another song. Discipline is required.

Very true!

 

[wavewarrior]

I did the test in a friend’s studio listening thru his Meyer HD1’s, which are pretty serious studio monitors. My test score was 23/36, but in my defense I typically record with both Tube Amps & Sims, so that might have also been a contributing factor.

When playing thru a tube amp in person there are subtle differences that can sometimes be felt and can enhance my actual performance; much like a crowds input while on stage, but its not easy telling the difference between sim & amp if they're recorded very well.

I’ve also been using my eleven rack as a preamp and running it directly into tube amp effects returns. This works kind of cool, because it allows power tubes, cabinet speakers, microphones & placements and room acoustics to all help shape the sound. It also allows incredible flexibility in the studio.

 

[JDOD]

If you're an undecisive mofo who loves noodling endlessly and experimenting with thousands of different amps and guitar tones, then you'll never finish another song. Discipline is required.

Thankfully my new amp is a simple creature. When I got my first sim (Gearbox about 6 years ago which I still use) I didn't get anything done - I just endlessly messed about with amps, virtual micing, effects etc. etc. If you've never had much money to spend on gear its like having a guitar shop to yourself. I actually learned quite a lot about amps, cabs and micing from sims and now I am transferring that back to a simple modern amp and mic.

 

[miroslav]

Doesn't your daw computer have wi-fi Miro??? Mine's like 5 years old, but it's got built-in wi-fi (which I've never used, I always have my tower hardwired & disable the wi-fi...), so your daw should be able to connect without running a cable...Just a thought, & when you get done with round 2 of the survey, you could just switch it off....

I use towers for my DAWs, and they don't come with WiFi capability by default. I would have to get a WiFi adapter...but that's not the issue. I simply do NOT EVER network my DAW's because I run them very lean. I have no antivirus on them, I never do any OS patching or updates or any of that shit, and I can disable all the non-audio bullshit and let the computer just focus on the DAW stuff.
They are purpose-built only for audio use.
So even if I had WiFi adapters, I would never connect them to the internet.

What I could/would do is simply bring my internet laptop into the studio and take the output from the laptop and connect to my studio monitors...or bring the audio file into the DAW and play them from there.
Of course, I need to first run a network line to the studio.
I don't do WiFi at home even with my WiFi capable laptop. I prefer hard connections whenever possible.
My modem has the WiFI turned off.

 

[famous beagle]

I simply do NOT EVER network my DAW's because I run them very lean.

NEVER? Wow ... you're really drawing a line in the sand about that. C'mon Miro, a network is just a tool like any other.

Sorry ... just couldn't resist.

 

[famous beagle]

When playing thru a tube amp in person there are subtle differences that can sometimes be felt and can enhance my actual performance; much like a crowds input while on stage, but its not easy telling the difference between sim & amp if they're recorded very well.

This is exactly the way I feel. Playing through a tube amp will feel differently than playing through a sim, and there's no question there --- especially if you're comparing being in the same room as the amp vs. sitting in front of monitors playing a sim at a moderate volume.

But it's getting more and more difficult to tell them apart just by listening to a recording. They do certain tones better than others (to me, they're still not quite there with the half-dirty tones), but, especially within the confines of a full song, it's really getting hard.

 

[JDOD]

I find I can get sims pretty good for clean tones (well that's easy!) and actually pretty good for really heavy metal tones. Its pretty tricky to get them right for anything in between though. When using my sims I generally plug by pedal board into a clean sim!

 

[miroslav]

NEVER? Wow ... you're really drawing a line in the sand about that. C'mon Miro, a network is just a tool like any other.

Sorry ... just couldn't resist.

Yeah... but it's an objective decision....not a subjective artsy-fartsy one.
I save those decisions for the mix...like when I'm thinking about using pitch-correction or not.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

I find I can get sims pretty good for clean tones (well that's easy!) and actually pretty good for really heavy metal tones. Its pretty tricky to get them right for anything in between though. When using my sims I generally plug by pedal board into a clean sim!

This is an interesting statement. I hear people say that they only do clean well, that they only do heavy well and some say that they only do crunch well.
I think that the conclusion is that like most amplifiers, some sims are better at some things and less so at others


This survey is definitely from an audience's perspective. It will be taken into account when looking at the data.

 

[JDOD]

This is an interesting statement. I hear people say that they only do clean well, that they only do heavy well and some say that they only do crunch well.
I think that the conclusion is that like most amplifiers, some sims are better at some things and less so at others


This survey is definitely from an audience's perspective. It will be taken into account when looking at the data.

Well I'm talking mainly about gearbox which is an old sim. It's heavy tone sounds simmy but that doesn't mean it sounds bad.

I thought amplitube was absolutely awful, I didn't get past the free modules cos they were so bad I didn't want to pay for anything. Garageband is marginally better, but I'd still only consider it for a clean tone.

Garageband has some really handy sim pianos and strings which can be handy for subtle embellishments

 

[wavewarrior]

This is an interesting statement. I hear people say that they only do clean well, that they only do heavy well and some say that they only do crunch well.
I think that the conclusion is that like most amplifiers, some sims are better at some things and less so at others


This survey is definitely from an audience's perspective. It will be taken into account when looking at the data.

To me it seems that too many dismiss the idea of recording with sims without giving them a fair shot.

A friend of mine has the Axe-Fx Ultra in his studio and it collects dust; yet when I bring my Eleven rack & laptop combo he freaks out over it. I'm pretty sure that if I owned his Axe unit, I'd get it rockin in a few weeks.

I have tube amps that I love and that won't ever change, but I do "jingle" work on the side. There's no way I can make any jingle producer happy with just one amp, so for that kind of stuff, the Eleven rack is the only way for me.

I remember back in the 80's, I used to do a lot of studio stuff in the islands. I would walk in with an old Charvel and a Tom Shultz Rockman XL; cut a bunch of commercials with that rig and the jingle guys couldn't hear the difference between it or a amp. I haven't used any of the "plug-in" type sims, to me the hardware stuff seems to work well enough to get the job done.

After looking at some of the blind test results here, it seems like we've all been fooled too, lol

 

[wavewarrior]

This is exactly the way I feel. Playing through a tube amp will feel differently than playing through a sim, and there's no question there --- especially if you're comparing being in the same room as the amp vs. sitting in front of monitors playing a sim at a moderate volume.

But it's getting more and more difficult to tell them apart just by listening to a recording. They do certain tones better than others (to me, they're still not quite there with the half-dirty tones), but, especially within the confines of a full song, it's really getting hard.

Spend a couple of days with an Eleven rack, for an inexpensive hardware unit, it does it all.

 

[minerman]

I use towers for my DAWs, and they don't come with WiFi capability by default. I would have to get a WiFi adapter...but that's not the issue. I simply do NOT EVER network my DAW's because I run them very lean. I have no antivirus on them, I never do any OS patching or updates or any of that shit, and I can disable all the non-audio bullshit and let the computer just focus on the DAW stuff.
They are purpose-built only for audio use.
So even if I had WiFi adapters, I would never connect them to the internet.

Pretty much the same thing here Miro, only I have my pc connected to the 'net with a cable when needed (wi-fi is disabled so it won't interfere with my recording), but I don't use this pc for the 'net very much, if any at all, but I do have the option if I need it...I turned of all the OS update bullshit long ago too, & not being a tech-guy, was kinda worried about it at first, but haven't had any problems with it really...

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

I do have to give the Eleven Rack a shout. I was impressed by it's sound. It costs about 1/4th or 3rd of the Axe-Fx or Kemper but it isn't of a considerably lower quality.
I personally just think it looks a bit silly.

 

[wavewarrior]

I do have to give the Eleven Rack a shout. I was impressed by it's sound. It costs about 1/4th or 3rd of the Axe-Fx or Kemper but it isn't of a considerably lower quality.
I personally just think it looks a bit silly.

Yes, it actually very clean for the money. To really unleash its flexibility and power, it works best using the “Stand alone editor”

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

That guy should be reading movie trailers.

 

[Armistice]

So even if I had WiFi adapters, I would never connect them to the internet.

I have a USB adaptor to update Reaper and other music programs, and occasionally the OS... apart from that I don't connect it. Indeed I can't other than via wifi given I don't have wired internet into da house...

 

[miroslav]

Thing is...even you connect once in awhile, you should have antivirus installed and you should do security patches, etc, if you want to stay protected....and then, you still end up bogging down the computer with all that stuff that isn't DAW related.

I prefer to keep the DAW boxes free of all that, and I use my internet laptop for downloads and DAW app/plug activations.
I have to use the offline authentication methods, which take an extra couple of steps, and when upgrading DAW apps with patches and stuff, I have to download to the laptop, transfer to the DAW etc....but it's really not a big deal, and that way, when I set up a DA box, it's minimal, and clutter free from anything non-DAW.
I mean...it's just my old-school way, same as with using hardwired network connections instead of WiFi....but like at work, I'll use the work WiFi if needed, plus I use another commercial WiFi for controlling digital signage crap...so it's mostly at home I keep it hardwired.

 

[wavewarrior]

That guy should be reading movie trailers.

No doubt pretty goofey.
If you gonna do any serious recording the stand alone editor is kinda a must have; best part is its a free software interface.
There's also a 11R user's group website, plenty of rigs on it, some good, some bad, some excellent.
I put together a group of popular types of amps in a folder, so when its jingle time and the producer asks for something Van Halen or Beatles or AC/DC sounding I just punch it up in seconds. If I feel creative I'll mess around with different cab or mic profiles in the unit; its quick to get around once you get the hang of it.

The "true z" guitar input acts amp-like with pic attack, something software based amp sims don't seem to have. If you have to use guitar sim, the hardware ones might get the job done good enough to pass.

Anyway, good luck & have fun.

 

[wavewarrior]

Microslav

I just ran from the headphone out of my laptop direct into the Meyers with an adaptor.
If you have self powered speakers in your control room just try going direct from a laptop.
The blind test is kinda fun, lol