Blind test about digital and analog guitar tones for you guys to do
- Thread starter Schwarzenyaeger
- Start date
famous beagle
Well-known member
Very cool for doing this, thanks for your effort! I just took the survey and identified myself in the comment.
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
I posted this same thread on Gearslutz. I think that the people there are taking it a lot harsher. Most of them didn't get past the first few songs and then complained about it saying that it doesn't even matter with heavy tones. Fucking lol. I remember now why I don't go to that place. So into justifying their gear they've lost sight of good sound.
Armistice: 18/36
famous beagle: 16/36
Whoever wrote: "Please post my results. Cool survey.": 20/36
minerman: 15/36
Armistice: 18/36
famous beagle: 16/36
Whoever wrote: "Please post my results. Cool survey.": 20/36
minerman: 15/36
JDOD
therecordingrebels.com
Just done it now, mate.
a) I'd be interested to see how I have done.
b) I'd be interested to see what the results of a random control group get.
c) I'd be interested to see if as a group we are any better than a random control group.
d) I'd be interested to see if any of us as individuals are better than the control group.
I'm down as JDOD from HR.com using Samsung earbuds in a silent office.
a) I'd be interested to see how I have done.
b) I'd be interested to see what the results of a random control group get.
c) I'd be interested to see if as a group we are any better than a random control group.
d) I'd be interested to see if any of us as individuals are better than the control group.
I'm down as JDOD from HR.com using Samsung earbuds in a silent office.
wavewarrior
New member
Its pretty cool that you took the time to make the blind test.
Seems like the people that "cry" the most, are typically the same guys that rail against all types of sims. My guess, maybe the realize that they're not that easy to tell them apart from real amps once the guitar parts are recorded and in a mix.
I was surprised to have not gotten even more wrong myself, lol
Thanks again.
"Meyer HD1's"
Armistice
Son of Yoda
Thing I thought as I was listening was whether I'd ever use those particular sounds. In the main I wouldn't - well not exactly. Also found myself drawing conclusions from the level of hiss and other distractions. I'm not surprised I hit 50% only.
Also interested in what sim/s and what amp/s were used...
Also interested in what sim/s and what amp/s were used...
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
They were:
Valve:
Tiny Terror
DvMark Triple 6
Rectifier
JCM 800
Sim:
Kemper
Axe-Fx Ultra
Eleven Free
Eleven Rack
Guitar Rig 5
and a Flextone III, which is a modeling amplifier combo.
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
Its pretty cool that you took the time to make the blind test.
Seems like the people that "cry" the most, are typically the same guys that rail against all types of sims. My guess, maybe the realize that they're not that easy to tell them apart from real amps once the guitar parts are recorded and in a mix.
I was surprised to have not gotten even more wrong myself, lol
Thanks again.
"Meyer HD1's"
I posted your results on the last page.
16/36
Yeah, everybody is a monkey in this survey. It seems like we're approaching a 50% right/wrong average.
Armistice
Son of Yoda
Ah, thought as much. Having one of these myself I know they're damn near impossible to distinguish from a real amp, that being the point of their existence and their entire sales pitch.
There's a difference between a "sim" and a "profile", especially when you understand how the profiler actually works and how the profile is created... using a microphone on a real amp and digitising the signal, which is pretty much what we all do when we record anyway... A sim as we know it being more purely a software simulation.
So, useful survey, but I'm not concerned about my average ability to distinguish between the two, knowing how at least some "simulation" clips were created.
People don't pay big bucks for Kempers and AxeFXs for the hype...
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
Could you elaborate a bit further on the concept?
The Kemper is so wrapped in mysteries...
I've been told that it isn't a simple impulse response system.
The Kemper can profile without a microphone though, can't it? Like you can profile just a cabinet.
The Kemper is so wrapped in mysteries...
I've been told that it isn't a simple impulse response system.
The Kemper can profile without a microphone though, can't it? Like you can profile just a cabinet.
ido1957
9K Gold Member
I just saw that thread at GS - about par for those who responded. They hate everything unless they use it, and they know everything about everything. It's always a dick matching contest with some of those guys.
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
I got that same feeling.
They tried the first few tones, noticed they couldn't tell the difference and then claimed it doesn't even matter with those tones.
Quite a lot of butthurt between the lines.
They have a few valid points that were already raised here but overall I find they reacted rather poorly.
They tried the first few tones, noticed they couldn't tell the difference and then claimed it doesn't even matter with those tones.
Quite a lot of butthurt between the lines.
They have a few valid points that were already raised here but overall I find they reacted rather poorly.
wavewarrior
New member
Got it, "Meyer HD1's 23/36"
wavewarrior
New member
Its kind of like sometimes you can't even hear the difference and other times it doesn't matter once its recorded and in the mix. lol
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'll tell you what it is.
Here...nobody really gives a fuck how they score or if the whole world knows their score.
We're mostly home-rec guys doing our thing at various levels, and our main competition is our own goals in trying to achieve them.
Over on GS, many of those guys are recording at some commercial level, some quite pro, others trying to get there...so the competition is much harsher between them to show who has their shit together. I mean, there's probably real paying clients on the line and not to mention huge ego's about who has the best pro gear and the best ears.
I kinda get it why it's like that...I mean, when you are in business, everything counts, especially when it's such an egocentric business with tons of subjective opinions and images hanging in the balance.
That aside...
I said I wanted to do the survey again in my studio, on my studio monitors, and where I can sit in a nice listening environment and give the sound clips my attention, rather than spending 5 seconds per clip, at work, on my computer speakers...
...but I'm trying to figure out how to do it, since I don't have any internet in my studio. I don't run my DAW's online, so I never had a call for it.
I was just thinking about this a week ago, thinking I might run a network line down to there, since I have my mother up from Florida, and she hogs the kitchen table where I also keep my internet laptop. She likes to watch foreign soap operas on her laptop also in the kitchen
so I let her have the space when she's here, and I retreat to my studio....but I have no internet there. 
So....back to the survey...is there a way I can download the clips/survey, and then load them up on my DAW to listen to?
(Don't jump through hoops over it...I may just see about running a network line this weekend anyway.)
minerman
Tonetard
^this.....I did about like you Miro, I just whacked through 'em, & if I thought they sounded pretty real, I checked the box, if not, I checked the other...I could really care less myself because the bottom line is, if it sounds good, then it is good....
Doesn't your daw computer have wi-fi Miro??? Mine's like 5 years old, but it's got built-in wi-fi (which I've never used, I always have my tower hardwired & disable the wi-fi...), so your daw should be able to connect without running a cable...Just a thought, & when you get done with round 2 of the survey, you could just switch it off....
Armistice
Son of Yoda
I've never actually profiled my amps ... I just bought it so I could download everyone else's profiles.... I figure it's a task best left to the professionals
So you need to get your guitar, amp, cab sounding like you want it, then put your appropriate mic in an appropriate place to get the appropriate recorded sound you want. No good getting a masterful creamy distortion from the amp if your mic isn't positioned well to capture it - so you need to know what a good mic'd sound sounds like, and unless you're really experienced, be monitoring it through your recording system (for recording profiles, anyway).
Then you switch over your mic to the Kemper and your guitar lead to the Kemper and set it to profile. The Kemper sends some strange bunch of tones to the amp and the mic picks it up and funnels it back. Takes about a minute. You then have the option of refining it more by playing a few things via the guitar, if you think it needs it.
Voila, you've created a profile. There are many, many people out there who'll tell you it's completely indistinguishable from the amp sound.
And you can now tailor it via the Kemper device in the same way as you would with your amp... bass, gain, volume, presence... add FX if you like, and a heap more arcane functions such as "tube sag" which I don't really understand. And it reacts pretty much the same way as an amp does when you twiddle the physical knobs. Amazing device for people like me who live in apartments and who just can't crank amps to get good sounds, much as we'd like to.
Your profile is specific to a few things though... all the freebie ones you can get will tell you the amp (you have to decode the names because everyone's afraid of saying "It's a Marshall" for some reason), mic, cab and type of guitar pickup - single coil / humbucker etc. Playing the right guitar with the right pickups for the profile makes a huge difference.
The trick, so far as I've discovered in recording, is knowing what you want. There's a shitload of profiles out there, and some of them are very bad. It's fun sifting through some of these boutique amps though, but ultimately if you don't know the sound you want to hear and what amp makes that sound, you'll spend a lot of time scrolling through stuff to no advantage. I'm starting to mark the ones I like and delete from the machine the ones I'll never use, to speed the process up.
It's a complicated machine and I'm not sure, unless I had a full time guitar tech, I'd ever use it live... but people do... As a recording tool, however, in my situation, it's a goddamn miracle...
If you're an undecisive mofo who loves noodling endlessly and experimenting with thousands of different amps and guitar tones, then you'll never finish another song.
Discipline is required.