The New Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

But, I bet it'd sound a lot better through a 12" speaker...

I agree. I like multiple 10" speakers, but just one doesn't usually work for overdriven tones to me.

Since I'm here, gonna ask a pretty dumb question, actually, a few of 'em but here goes:

The little white thingies I've got circled are actually capacitors, right???
And, the numbers on 'em are their values, right???

Yup and yup. You've actually got several caps in that pic. The big blue and black "cans" are capacitors, as are the white blocks, and the little round tan discs. All capacitors.

And, where would I get some of these things for spares???

For those lego block capacitors, you're gonna need to find an electrical supply company or get em online.

And, could different types of these things be swapped/substituted for the originals???

This I'm not sure about, but I'm gonna guess sometimes. Those plastic block capacitors handle heat and voltage differently than a ceramic or polyester film cap. I'm not sure why Marshall switched to those types in their amps besides maybe they're cheap and easy to solder to a board.

 

[wavewarrior]

I think that's a terrible demo. That amp sounds as small and thin as it actually is.

Totally agree that the whole recording on their demo does sound rather thin.

You can especially hear the “thinness” in his voice when he’s speaking too. To my ears, they shouldn’t have recorded the demo in such a hard surfaced room and the open back on the combo isn’t helping it bouncing off the hard flat wall behind it. The actual room acoustics in the video sounds like an empty concrete garage with major problems to begin with to me, lol.

I think it’s encouraging that Marshall might be starting to offer these lower priced 5 watt tube amps. If they were to offer it or a JVM in a head version, I might consider picking one up, leaving my 50th anniversary edition 1 watt in my home studio when jamming with friends; it would have to be connected to a 4 x12 of course.

Gonna check this DSL5 out as soon as they hit the local stores because the price is right on them.

 

[wavewarrior]

I agree Greg, that demo doesn't sound good at all, but there's a guy over at the Marshall forum that has one, & says it's gain/red channel is actually voiced a little different than the other/newer DSL's, having a little less gain, but I don't know for sure...He's modded his kinda like I'm doing mine, but I haven't heard any clips....But, I bet it'd sound a lot better through a 12" speaker...

+1 Agree
I'd bet it would sound much better with 4 x12's too!

 

[minerman]

So, I think I've found some of the caps online, not sure, gonna ask a few guys to see...haven't heard back from Donk (the guy in the Roadhouse), but sometimes it takes a while...

Here's what I plan on doing next:

Un-solder one leg of C60, then re-solder both C41 & C60 to a switch, this should make the red channel into od1/od2, with a switch so I can toggle between the low & high gain versions of the channel....Clipping/un-soldering C60 should lower the gain a little more, & when I wire the switch up, one side will be the low gain, & the other should be stock, just like the red channel was, if I'm understanding this correctly....

The next step will be adding the crunch to the green channel....Hopefully Donk will post a diagram like he's done for the od1/od2 switch...Very helpful, & I understood it immediately...

Keep your fingers crossed guys, maybe I'll have a 4 channel/mode DSL that I can crank at 3 am....

 

[wavewarrior]

Sounds like a plan!

 

[Greg_L]

Totally agree that the whole recording on their demo does sound rather thin.

You can especially hear the “thinness” in his voice when he’s speaking too. To my ears, they shouldn’t have recorded the demo in such a hard surfaced room and the open back on the combo isn’t helping it bouncing off the hard flat wall behind it. The actual room acoustics in the video sounds like an empty concrete garage with major problems to begin with to me, lol.

I think it’s encouraging that Marshall might be starting to offer these lower priced 5 watt tube amps. If they were to offer it or a JVM in a head version, I might consider picking one up, leaving my 50th anniversary edition 1 watt in my home studio when jamming with friends; it would have to be connected to a 4 x12 of course.

Gonna check this DSL5 out as soon as they hit the local stores because the price is right on them.

I'm not sure that's what it is. It seems to me that the close mic is what's providing the amp sound. You can hear the audio switch from his talking into the room mic, and then when the amp is playing it switches to the close mic on the speaker. If that's the case, the room won't have much, if any, effect. If they blended in the room mic then phasing could be compounding the issue. I think that amp just sounds small because it is. I find that most micro combos sound the same way in person. The Slash SL-5 is is small boxy sounding dog to me and it has a Vintage 30 in it. Low watt Orange combos sound the same. Small. These little amps are just in small boxes and don't drive the speakers hard enough IMO. The DSL 15 even sort of has this same issue, but it is better. And I think they all sound better through a 4x12 - even the 1 watters.

 

[Greg_L]

So, I think I've found some of the caps online, not sure, gonna ask a few guys to see...haven't heard back from Donk (the guy in the Roadhouse), but sometimes it takes a while...

Here's what I plan on doing next:

Un-solder one leg of C60, then re-solder both C41 & C60 to a switch, this should make the red channel into od1/od2, with a switch so I can toggle between the low & high gain versions of the channel....Clipping/un-soldering C60 should lower the gain a little more, & when I wire the switch up, one side will be the low gain, & the other should be stock, just like the red channel was, if I'm understanding this correctly....

The next step will be adding the crunch to the green channel....Hopefully Donk will post a diagram like he's done for the od1/od2 switch...Very helpful, & I understood it immediately...

Keep your fingers crossed guys, maybe I'll have a 4 channel/mode DSL that I can crank at 3 am....

Cool man. For me, the DSL Green Crunch mode is where it's at. If I had one, that's the sound mode I'd always use. Sounds great on the big versions.

So let me get this straight, The DSL has "Classic" and "Ultra" channels. You're installing an "Ultra" toggle is gonna switch between stock, and a lower gain Ultra channel setting? If so, that will probably be perfect. I would think, knowing your style, that you'd want more gain than Green Crunch but less gain than the typical OD side of the amp.

One thing you may wanna ask about is if those caps have any effect on the tone besides gain. Caps, depending on their value and location in the circuit can alter the lows or highs. I don't know if the caps you're tweaking have that affect. I'm just thinking out loud. People commonly snip the "bright cap" out of Plexis and 2203/2204s to darken the sound some. The bright cap is a different style capacitor in a different location, but yours might give a similar affect maybe? I don't know. Look into it.

 

[wavewarrior]

I'm not sure that's what it is. It seems to me that the close mic is what's providing the amp sound. You can hear the audio switch from his talking into the room mic, and then when the amp is playing it switches to the close mic on the speaker. If that's the case, the room won't have much, if any, effect. If they blended in the room mic then phasing could be compounding the issue.

I think that amp just sounds small because it is. I find that most micro combos sound the same way in person. The Slash SL-5 is is small boxy sounding dog to me and it has a Vintage 30 in it. Low watt Orange combos sound the same. Small. These little amps are just in small boxes and don't drive the speakers hard enough IMO. The DSL 15 even sort of has this same issue, but it is better. And I think they all sound better through a 4x12 - even the 1 watters.

Of course bro, a small box & small speaker is always going to sound small, that’s a no-brainer right?

I never run my 1 watt amp using the little combo speaker, it’s always hooked up to my 1960 cab with 75's in it. When the new 5 watt DSL5's are available at Sam Ash or Guitar Center, I’ll test it thru a 1960 cab in the store; maybe even bring my cab in. If it sounds good, I might buy it.

The amp I’d really like to see Marshall release is a JVM version with 5 watts, that would be really bad azz for me.

When I listen to George's video demo I can hear the room sound in the mix and to me it sounds like a cinder block or concrete room, like an empty garage, maybe its just me, but I agree they screwed the pooch in the audio department. lol

 

[Greg_L]

I'd like to see Marshall stop fucking around with these little low watt toys and make some big amps with power scaling that don't require their customers to go broke buying them.

 

[minerman]

Cool man. For me, the DSL Green Crunch mode is where it's at. If I had one, that's the sound mode I'd always use. Sounds great on the big versions.

Yep, from what I've read it goes from slight breakup to just a little dirtier than AC-DC tones, which is about what I've been after on a few of the songs I'm working on, but I'm having a hard time getting there with the red channel, due to it having so much gain....When I turn the gain down to about where it needs to be, it thins the sound out so much, it doesn't work...If I use the green channel, I have to boost it with an od, & even with mild settings, it kills the low end/chunk, so if/when I get the crunch mode installed, it'll see a lot of use too IMO...

So let me get this straight, The DSL has "Classic" and "Ultra" channels. You're installing an "Ultra" toggle is gonna switch between stock, and a lower gain Ultra channel setting? If so, that will probably be perfect. I would think, knowing your style, that you'd want more gain than Green Crunch but less gain than the typical OD side of the amp.

Pretty much Greg...Stock, my DSL-1 has the "Classic" channel, which is the green clean channel on the big DSL's & the "Ultra" channel, which is od 2 on the big DSL's...The mod I'm working on would make my Ultra/red channel into the big DSL's red channel, with od1 & od2....Installing the toggle switch would make it the same as having the od1/od2 button on the big DSL's...

One thing you may wanna ask about is if those caps have any effect on the tone besides gain. Caps, depending on their value and location in the circuit can alter the lows or highs. I don't know if the caps you're tweaking have that affect. I'm just thinking out loud. People commonly snip the "bright cap" out of Plexis and 2203/2204s to darken the sound some. The bright cap is a different style capacitor in a different location, but yours might give a similar affect maybe? I don't know. Look into it.

AFAIK, the caps I'm gonna tweak/un-solder don't have any affect on the tone at all, except the gain...I'm already ahead of you, but the guy hasn't replied back to me yet....The next step of the mod is pretty simple, but I'm gonna have to order some extra caps (just to have in case I fuck something up....right now, the C41/cathode resistor bypas capacitor that I took out, is still in tact/would work, but I wanna have a few on hand just in case), a few different value resistors, & a couple switches...Gonna get it all at once, but do the mods in steps like I mentioned...

And I'm sure my little DSL-1 would have a bright cap, just like the rest of 'em....I can't remember the exact board numbers, but they're all differnt in the different DSL's (IE: the DSL 50/100 is different from the DSL40, the DSL15 is different, etc)...

So, for now, I'm playing the waiting game, but I'm betting that to add the crunch mode to the green channel is as simple as wiring a different value capacitor to the green channel's gain stage (which would raise it, giving it more gain), snipping one leg of 2 caps (just like in the red channel that I'm working on now), & wiring it all up to a switch, where I could toggle/switch between the stock version & the higher gain version of the green channel...I'm starting to understand this stuff a little more, I'm not positive about this, but it does make sense to me, since that's basically what's being done on the red channel...We'll see...

 

[Lt. Bob]

I'm gonna say I don't understand how a cap is gonna change the gain. That's usually a resistor that does that.
Caps are usually in tone circuits and in power supplies.

 

[Greg_L]

I'm gonna say I don't understand how a cap is gonna change the gain. That's usually a resistor that does that.
Caps are usually in tone circuits and in power supplies.

I don't understand it myself. It has something to do with altering the balance between the grid and cathode and how the tube goes into saturation/clipping. Or something like that. Don't hold me to that lame ass explanation.

 

[minerman]

I don't understand it either guys, but it's the "cathode resistor bypass cap", which to me, means with it in the circuit, controls if the cathode resistor works, which would control how much gain the tube puts out, by it's value...If I'm correct, the resistor increases the gain if it's in the circuit, but bypassing/taking the cap would take it (the cathode resistor) out of the circuit, hence, leaving the tube's gain "normal"....LOL...I guess...FuckifIknow, but, un-soldering the little bastard did lower the gain, I didn't zap myself, & the amp still works, so, it's all good......

 

[dainbramage]

There's a 6 knob 1985 JCM800 (2204) for sale over here for about $1200. It looks mint. Paycheck is coming up in a few days........... Wouldn't be able to crank it anyway but it is tempting.

 

[minerman]

Here ya go Greg, this is about an hour drive from my house:

Marshall JCM800 50W half stack

 

[Greg_L]

There's a 6 knob 1985 JCM800 (2204) for sale over here for about $1200. It looks mint. Paycheck is coming up in a few days........... Wouldn't be able to crank it anyway but it is tempting.

Go check it out! I have the JMP 2204 vertical input version of that amp, and I will say that you don't have to "crank it", but it does have to be pretty damn loud to really hit it's sweet spot.

Here ya go Greg, this is about an hour drive from my house:

Marshall JCM800 50W half stack

Now that is a mega deal. Go buy that rig right now. That's a great price for that halfstack. You'd be stealing from that guy if it's all clean and working properly.

 

[minerman]

Now that is a mega deal. Go buy that rig right now. That's a great price for that halfstack. You'd be stealing from that guy if it's all clean and working properly.

Dude, if I had the $$$, I'd buy it, then re-sell it to you for the same price, but I just got paid this morning, & I'm broke as fuck....The bills took about all my payday this week, so it's gonna be this way until I get paid again....On the other hand, if I had the $$$, & bought it, I might just keep it...LOL...Seriously though, there's no way I could use that amp here, at all...It looks good/clean though...

There are a few Marshalls on the local CL this week, but that's the best deal I've saw...

Still waiting on Donk to reply back, but no biggie, it'll be at least next week before I order any parts, so it's all good...

 

[Greg_L]

Dude, if I had the $$$, I'd buy it, then re-sell it to you for the same price,

Lol. I'm not interested. I already have the more desirable (to me) vertical input 2204 and three cabs. If it were a vertical input 800 2203, I'd be interested.

 

[minerman]

It's cool man, I'm broke as fuck 'til next week anyway, so no biggie...I won't even have enough scratch to order the caps, resistors, & switches for my DSL-1 mods, total being about $30 I'm guessing...LOL...

Still no reply from Donk, but I know everyone's busy with their own thing, but I do have to say, I'm really interested to see what he did to the green channel, to add the crunch mode...Really curious to find out if I was even close to guessing what he did...Hopefully I'll find out before long...

On the "album", finished up another song today, drum-wise, IIRC, that was #6, 4 or 5 more to go...LOL...These songs should blow anything else I've done in the past completely out of the water though, at least I'm hoping they will.....

 

[Greg_L]

It's cool man, I'm broke as fuck 'til next week anyway, so no biggie...I won't even have enough scratch to order the caps, resistors, & switches for my DSL-1 mods, total being about $30 I'm guessing...LOL...

Still no reply from Donk, but I know everyone's busy with their own thing, but I do have to say, I'm really interested to see what he did to the green channel, to add the crunch mode...Really curious to find out if I was even close to guessing what he did...Hopefully I'll find out before long...

On the "album", finished up another song today, drum-wise, IIRC, that was #6, 4 or 5 more to go...LOL...These songs should blow anything else I've done in the past completely out of the water though, at least I'm hoping they will.....

That's great. I really like making an "album". Having a finished collection of cohesive songs a nice feeling of accomplishment for me.