US Recording Media: Seriously? LOL

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The Hutt tape which he never comes up with is just an idea he is selling. All they have is old GP9 2" tape sitting around which they are trying to liquidate by having someone slit the tape for them. Well where is he going to have that done at ATR or Pyral in France?
I really don't think you will see anything come out of the Hutt camp as the announcement of the GP9 which is good tape, has been out at least 6 months with not a product to show.
The larger headaches that many people ignore except me is the lack of new heads for these decks.
 
Ot...

OT... I have new/NOS heads for a Tascam 38 and 388, as well as some 4-track Portastudios. I'm sitting on them for now.

OT... I happen to think that on most of these decks the vintage of the original 38 that the takeup and back tensions have drifted upward and out of spec enough to exacerbate any tape shedding problem.

OT... I only work on these units out of necessity, but due to my backlog of fixit projects I've been meaning to do more.

OT... I won't be buying any new tape anytime soon.

:spank::eek:;)
 
skywaveTDR said:
The Hutt tape which he never comes up with is just an idea he is selling. All they have is old GP9 2" tape sitting around which they are trying to liquidate by having someone slit the tape for them. Well where is he going to have that done at ATR or Pyral in France?
I really don't think you will see anything come out of the Hutt camp as the announcement of the GP9 which is good tape, has been out at least 6 months with not a product to show.
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Yes exactly. And the big reason he has to keep dangling the promise of new tape production is all about selling what he already has. A lot of people, especially in professional circles, are hesitant to invest in a tape with an uncertain future. People set their machines up for a given tape with the expectation they'll be able to get that tape in the future. So he tries to make it look like it will make a big comeback

The larger headaches that many people ignore except me is the lack of new heads for these decks.
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Yeah that can be a headache for some machines, but there are plenty of low use machines and new heads out there. The way most people use analog now days the tape path doesn't wear nearly as quickly. There are also a lot of hobbyists, and has been for a long time, who don't stick to analog or any kind of recording for long. They come and go. They buy machines and tape, barely use them (If they use them at all) and then move onto something else, and sell all their stuff. It goes round and round like this. People like me who've been in this for a lifetime are the exception.

So anyway, what it boils down to is there are lots of low use machines that keep getting passed around. I see them all the time.

As far as parts availability in general, this is the reason a lot of us "old timers" have become Tascam fans. They still have new parts, including new heads, for a lot of their tape machines. I've got one set for each machine I own waiting for the heads I have to wear down, which is going to take a while. And JRF has already been mentioned. True, heads are not as plentiful as they once were, but they are out there. I really miss Saki heads. They were better than the originals in many cases. A limited number of Saki heads are still out there, but I don't think they're making them anymore.
 
skywaveTDR said:
Tape is not more expensive than it was if you evaluate all other things- they are also more expensive.
The RMGI Tape is not inferior to any previous formula and it is bad evaluation by the person who thinks this way- I have tested it and I do work on tape decks every day. Complain all you want but old 406 and 456 on E bay is more likely to be sticky than any fresh tape.
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Ummm... those of us who've been doing this all our lives have worked with the AGFA/BASF/EMTEC/RMGI brands over the years. I think we know what is what. Bad evaluation? We can still make a direct comparrison because we still have all the tapes new-old-stock. I mean c'mon! I use them every day. I can only wonder if you have some vested interest in RMGI. (Or you're one of the smart one that wants to keep the price of NOS tape down and keep it all to himself) :p :)

And yes RMGI tape is MUCH more expensive when looking at inflation and other factors. Tape prices are outrageous and account for much more of the studio budget than they ever have. Other costs have not come close to approaching that sort of increase.

You must be new around here. We've gone to great lengths, particularly on this form to help people avoid problem tape. What you may have found on other sites concerning the issue started here. This is the source. There is no "More likely" about it. Tape will either have problems or it will not based on type and year. It's not hard to figure it out.

But RMGI has had more then their share of bad tape runs... more than I ever saw with BASF/EMTEC. In fact I've never seen a bad BASF tape in my life. BASF/EMTEC made the most stable SM911, SM468, SM900 ever. Those tapes had the best reputation in the business for consistency and stability. Not so with RMGI.

Earlier someone in the thread claimed tape prices haven't changed much in the last seven years. I pointed out that they've increased by about 100%... meaning the cost has doubled. Not even the price of crude oil and gas has doubled in that same period. Not much else has. Can't think of anything else off the top of my head that has gone so crazy except maybe gold.
 
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You're never going to see tape prices going down because the raw materials are skyrocketing and the demand for tape is going down so the manufacturers have to pay more for their materials. I don't know why you'd think Pyral in France would lower tape prices since they're faced with the same types of costs that ATR and even RMGI-Holland had. US Recording and other dealers had two price increases this summer from the factory for RMGI and ATR tape. And also, to say that a 30 year old roll of tape is as good as the day it was made is ridiculous. ALL tape binder slowly deteriorates in time, and some like the AMPEX tapes and some EMTEC tapes had serious problems with deterioration which seem to have been solved now with ATR and RMGI tape formulations. I work at US Recording so I know something about this. -Jeff
 
If you have to bake a tape before you use it, it's already shot.
 
Quantegy lost a ton of money for years making analog tape and finally after the third (I think) bankruptcy they gave up. We're lucky to still have two manufacturers making tape. There's still plenty of professionals who understand that tape is expensive but still the best way to go, and they're willing to pay for it if they have to. To pay $100 for a roll of tape you're putting your life's dreams on just doesn't seem that horrible. So what's the choice? Pay $70 for a used roll of tape from somewhere and take that chance or get a brand new roll for $25 more? It's a no brainer for most people.
 
If the demand goes down, it will hit a point where tape will not be made anymore. There's basic costs involved with making tape that you can't get around, especially oxide costs and the chemicals. And on top of this, shipping tape from Europe like RMGI must do costs a fortune and shipping is more expensive now than ever! The less tape people buy for whatever reason, the more expensive it will get. Even the flanges have TRIPLED in cost over the last five years.
 
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skywaveTDR said:
The Hutt tape which he never comes up with is just an idea he is selling. All they have is old GP9 2" tape sitting around which they are trying to liquidate by having someone slit the tape for them. Well where is he going to have that done at ATR or Pyral in France?
I really don't think you will see anything come out of the Hutt camp as the announcement of the GP9 which is good tape, has been out at least 6 months with not a product to show.
The larger headaches that many people ignore except me is the lack of new heads for these decks.
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Peter Hutt has been trying to get tape made by others since 2005. I seriously doubt this is going to happen.
 
JeffAndersen said:
You're never going to see tape prices going down because the raw materials are skyrocketing and the demand for tape is going down so the manufacturers have to pay more for their materials. I don't know why you'd think Pyral in France would lower tape prices since they're faced with the same types of costs that ATR and even RMGI-Holland had. US Recording and other dealers had two price increases this summer from the factory for RMGI and ATR tape. And also, to say that a 30 year old roll of tape is as good as the day it was made is ridiculous. ALL tape binder slowly deteriorates in time, and some like the AMPEX tapes and some EMTEC tapes had serious problems with deterioration which seem to have been solved now with ATR and RMGI tape formulations. I work at US Recording so I know something about this. -Jeff
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There's another side to economics 101. A supplier pricing a product out of existence. It all comes down to poor management... poor understanding of the market. The entity needs the capital in the first place to take some loss for a time until the costumer base grows enough to support the "Reasonable cost." Everyone should know this by now, thanks to the late Sam Walton, if nothing else. As it is, tape companies are shrinking the customer base and then the sky is the limit on the price. Will it double again over the next couple years? That's not hard to imagine at the rate things are going. You couple that with no advertising whatsoever and all you have is word of mouth... like guerrilla marketing by people who setup new accounts in forums like this to try to sway all the people who aren't here and aren't listening.

For those that are listening I will always recommend people look after their own bottom line rather than give up on tape altogether. The tape manufacturers still see the demand for tape no matter where we buy it. The eBay market and similar are legitimate outlets for products of all kinds. It must be monitored or you only get half the story about tape sales or anything else sales.

People like me on this forum know that NOS tape is as good and even better than what it being produced today. We have it, we buy it, we use it and have used it in many cases with 30 - 40 years of experience using it. We try to help steer people to good deals on machines, mixers and other devices and we'll continue to do the same thing for tape.

The people involved with tape production will either change management or change ownership or change whatever, but they have to change what they're doing now or go out of business. And as I said previously, let them go out of business sooner than later so someone else with better business sense can give it a go. At some point people must have the balls to say, "No, that costs too much... no thanks!" The other thing you can do I suppose is become a patsy like one does for a political party... start blowing trumpets and waving flags. Not me.
 
materials are higher, also you can't make alot of the old tape formulations anymore because the materials due to epa, etc just aren't available. to be honest alot of nos tape is unstable, but how can we be sure the new stuff is either? it's too small a market for anyone to make cheap tape anymore...........witness the mess with tube audio........fewer and fewer manufacturers and more unstable product. tubes and tape will die out........other than museums and a few who will refuse to quit using them. I love them both but can't afford either one anymore.
 
This is what was sent out from RMGI for SM900 and Sm911.

When RMGI sends out 1/4" tape, it is assembled here in the USA and the tape ships in these boxes. The only way to get them in blue boxes is if the tape was very old from the beginning of the product being introduced here in the USA when RMGI actually brought the tape in here already assembled. So quite possibly, if you bought any 1/4" reels of RMGI tape and it actually came in a blue box, it was from the first shipments. US Recording was not hallucinating this. By the way, this photo comes from a different tape dealer's site. SM911.webp
 
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"The people involved with tape production will either change management or change ownership or change whatever, but they have to change what they're doing now or go out of business. And as I said previously, let them go out of business sooner than later so someone else with better business sense can give it a go. At some point people must have the balls to say, "No, that costs too much... no thanks!" The other thing you can do I suppose is become a patsy like one does for a political party... start blowing trumpets and waving flags. Not me"

What a ridiculous statement . There are two companies currently manufacturing tape. That's it .If your pissed off that tape is too high get a real job!
 
FAST996 said:
"The people involved with tape production will either change management or change ownership or change whatever, but they have to change what they're doing now or go out of business. And as I said previously, let them go out of business sooner than later so someone else with better business sense can give it a go. At some point people must have the balls to say, "No, that costs too much... no thanks!" The other thing you can do I suppose is become a patsy like one does for a political party... start blowing trumpets and waving flags. Not me"

What a ridiculous statement . There are two companies currently manufacturing tape. That's it .If your pissed off that tape is too high get a real job!
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I know how many companies are manufacturing tape... and I have always known at any given time who is manufacturing tape for the last 35 years or so. When any company that is mismanaging a product or service goes under it gives better minds a chance to do it better. It is this way in all industries. Tape is no exception. You're premise is based on fear and panic that we might "Lose the last one." Tape prices are artificially inflated because of the very mindset that you have.

Come back and talk to us after you've taken a college level economics class. Any ECO 101 at a community college will get you quite a bit more than what you're working with now.
 
I'll go on record as saying I rarely buy the new tape ... mainly because no one makes the older, lower output formulas. I don't have a serious problem with the price ... if that's what it costs, then that's what it costs.

The idea of 'supporting the tape manufacturers' is bologna as far as I'm concerned ... as all companies are concerned with their bottom-line, consumers are as well -- I'm going to make the most affordable and logical choice based on my needs. The manufacturers and retailers should cater to the needs of the public, but we often see them creating the needs themselves. I don't currently need new tape just as I don't need a tablet or smartphone to 'stay connected'. I can tell you I have felt like a reel (ha) chump paying $90 to discover it's a sub-par tape when I could have purchased something better for $10-$40. Yeh, it can be a bit of a gamble buying old tape but if you play your cards right, you're never out more than a few bucks, and you usually get a nice metal reel out of the deal at the very least.

My opinion is that that RMGI tape is not up to the standards of Quantegy tape, and certainly not on par with the older 3M formulas ... it is an inferior product. And if I can still get the good stuff for cheaper, I'm going to. The recommendation to 'always use new tape' is like saying 'always buy new guitars' ... it just doesn't work for me. I've never used ATR because it's too hot for my tastes.

If and when the day comes where old tape is too scarce and/or expensive to be practical, then I will re-assess my options ... if the manufacturers of new tape have gone kaput by then, so be it. I won't feel responsible for their demise because I gave them a fair shake and they didn't deliver the goods. For mixdown work, there will likely not be any shortage of Ampex 632-type stuff in our lifetime. Multi-track may be another issue, but I could see baking and re-baking 1" or 2" tape for this purpose if it really came down to it.

I can tell you I've given RMGI tape more than a few chances from 2008-2012, and have always been disappointed with the performance (though it does sound good) ... the rub is that it costs a lot more than NOS tape. Even used tape has been more reliable in my experience (I recorded most of my last album on used [late '60s] reel of 1 inch Scotch 206 [some with splices!] without any problems). I admit that RMGI has been great at addressing problems on a customer service level (including replacing bad reels ... with more less-bad-but-still-not-great reels).

I was not going to post to this thread, but I think it's for the greater good of all tape recordists to speak frankly and honestly. The idea that 'old tape is bad and new tape is good' is simply incorrect.

That said, if RMGI or ATR offer lower-output, classic tape that is more stable at something resembling a slightly more reasonable price ... I will give it a fair shake.

Honestly, if the tape manufacturers are going down, it's probably based on poor performance more than anything else. If the tape doesn't work very well, it kind of defeats the purpose of having it available.
 
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... just thought of another point:

I've typically thrown out sticky tape, and now I'm considering maybe holding on to it for future baking, years down the line (if it comes down to it). I've got a handful of Scotch 226/Ampex 456 I got in a lot still on the reels that's bad that I was gonna dump and keep the reels for later use (lighter storage). Thinking maybe we should re-think the dumping bad tape policy? What do you guys think?

My gut tells me that the day that we need to do this is very very far away (and may never come), and there is so much out there, that it's probably not worth keeping the bad stuff around until there is an indication that it's needed!
 
BTW, any ideas on where to get 1" NOS ? something not sticky of course. Baking 1" is a pain. i am looking for some, but eBay doesn't seem to have much, any points will be appreciated.

Thanks
 
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