Rats and witches...

[fritsthegirl]

Don't adjust anything for other people. Your voice is very, very good.
The mix forces you to pay attention to the vocal.
In this kind of mix, if you don't sing well it will show right away.
You sing VERY well...
Congrats!
C

Thanks a lot. I'm glad you like my singing. I really don't mind changing some things up if I think it will make it better. I did definitely hear what people are saying on the sound of the vocals, not that they're sung bad, they just don't sound as good as they could in the overall mix. I heard something weird with it myself, but wasn't sure what exactly, which is why I posted it in here.

A few pairs of fresh ears really helps me to focus on changing the right things. Otherwise I would just be amending stuff without any real idea of what I am meant to be looking at. If more than one person says the same thing, I kind of know it's a problem and something I need to look at.

 

[fritsthegirl]

I assumed it was about you anyway.

About normalizing: don't. It achieves nothing. If you want to adjust the level of the vocal (or anything else), just turn it up.

When Greg's talking about getting the vocal to blend in with the rest of the mix, he's talking about putting a reverb or delay on it, which if done right, will make it sound further back in the mix, blending in with everything else. The more reverb you put on it, the more it will blend in. The drier it is, the more it will be upfront. Forgive me if you know this stuff already:

* Don't put the verb/delay on the vocal track as an insert. Set it up on a buss, and set up a Send on the vocal track to the buss.

* Find a verb/delay preset you like the sound of and put it on the buss. (This'll take time. It's like shopping. Actually I like cruising presets better than shopping.) Keep the verb 100% wet on the buss. Leave the level at the default setting.

* Turn the Send level on the vocal track down to 0 and listen to it. Slowly fade up the Send level of the reverb and decide if you like it. If you like it, set it at a modest level so that it isn't obvious.

* Go back to the same verb on the buss and shorten the decay/tail on the verb so that it becomes even *less* obvious.

Now your vocal's more blended in. Tweak to taste.

I did not know any of this, so REALLY appreciate it, thanks a lot for taking the time to explain. I shall try that for sure, buss is like an FX envelope in Reaper is it?

 

[fritsthegirl]

I'm usually pretty good at judging a book by it's cover, and just by name alone, that band seems like one I'd want to kill..

HAHA, yeh you would DEFINITELY hate them. They sing loads about love and all that kind of shit.

 

[dobro]

I shall try that for sure, buss is like an FX envelope in Reaper is it?

I'm just getting into Reaper, so I'm no expert, but a buss isn't like an FX envelope. If you want a buss, make a new track (the new track's the buss). Name it - 'vocal space' for instance. Put the reverb FX on the buss track.

Now go back to your vocal track and right click the I/O button. Choose 'send' and then click on the buss track that you'll see in the dropdown menu.

Okay, to do all that stuff I told you about before in the other post like adjusting the level of the Send on the vocal track, left click the I/O button and it'll give you all the controls for that.

 

[fritsthegirl]

I'm just getting into Reaper, so I'm no expert, but a buss isn't like an FX envelope. If you want a buss, make a new track (the new track's the buss). Name it - 'vocal space' for instance. Put the reverb FX on the buss track.

Now go back to your vocal track and right click the I/O button. Choose 'send' and then click on the buss track that you'll see in the dropdown menu.

Okay, to do all that stuff I told you about before in the other post like adjusting the level of the Send on the vocal track, left click the I/O button and it'll give you all the controls for that.

Ah cool, I've never done that before. Sounds like a good one to learn, I'll try it tonight. Thanks again.

 

[Greg_L]

he's talking about putting a reverb or delay on it, .

But just barely. Reverb and/or delay can help things sit into a mix, but they can also sound really dated and stupid if you're not very careful with it. A little goes a long way.

 

[jonny deep]

But just barely. Reverb and/or delay can help things sit into a mix, but they can also sound really dated and stupid if you're not very careful with it. A little goes a long way.

The method I've read and use myself (with varying degrees of success) is to turn the reverb up (or increase the level being sent to the bus) so you can hear it very obviously, then turn it down slowly until you just can't quite hear it any more. That will help it sit in the mix (depending on how well you setup the reverb plugin and what you have going on elsewhere) without there being an obvious effect on the vocal.

 

[Greg_L]

The method I've read and use myself (with varying degrees of success) is to turn the reverb up (or increase the level being sent to the bus) so you can hear it very obviously, then turn it down slowly until you just can't quite hear it any more. That will help it sit in the mix (depending on how well you setup the reverb plugin and what you have going on elsewhere) without there being an obvious effect on the vocal.

That's the way I personally like it. Reverb makes everything sound dated to me. I really hate it.....unless it's way over-the-top like with rockabilly or surf guitar or something. It's usually very cheesy sounding any other way. But it does work as advertised. So I like to have enough reverb that it does it's job, but not so much that you actually notice it.

I much prefer a quick delay, or a reverb set up like a delay with no tail and a little lag before the reflection hits.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

I should go back to work and stop reading the HR forums, so I haven't read most of everyone's comments, but here's my impressions.

The claps sound kind of like a weird 80s drum machine. It could be an interesting effect, but it seems like you abandon it halfway through? (Also, the folks who've said they're too quiet relative to the drums are probably right.)

The lyrics are good. Heartfelt and melancholy.

I might drop the doubled vocals on the chorus. It's a very sparse and minimalist mix otherwise, and the doubled vox sounds more like you're going for a big pop sound.

Guitar sounds alright. Flute's a bit noodly at times but is a good sound to add variety to the mix.

 

[fritsthegirl]

I should go back to work and stop reading the HR forums

Haha, join the club. Thanks heaps for the listen Steve. I hear you, on everything but the doubled vocals, I do kind of like them. But I'll see what it sounds like without just to make sure I'm not being an idiot and missing a trick.

Might try it without all the flute and just bring it in certain parts, that's a definite. The jury's out on what I'm going to do with the hand claps (which aren't hand claps). I don't like them all the way through, probably because they're not real hand claps but some weird chinese percussion intrument that sounds like a handclap but gets kind of annoying after about 10 bars...

I'll definitely be revisiting this tune and making some changes to the mix on the basis of the feedback, some really good stuff you've given me to work with.

Thing is, I've now wasted all the time I was going to spend in it tonight reading today's forum arguments and making useless posts.

 

[PTravel]

For what it's worth, I really like the flutes.

 

[fritsthegirl]

For what it's worth, I really like the flutes.

Thanks! I do like them a lot too, so the editing will be somewhat minimal. I can kind of hear where they might have a bit more punch coming back in if they're removed in certain parts before.

 

[heatmiser]

...I'm always trying to fix something in the mix that comes down to a lack of skill in this area.

I don't know...that's not how I hear it. I don't think you need to try to "fix" your vocal tracks in the mix. The performances sound good to me. I just think they could be processed in a way that would allow them to blend in better with the instrument tracks you have.

Then again, I said they were really dry, you wondered if they were too roomy, so who knows? It's pretty subjective.

 

[fritsthegirl]

I don't know...that's not how I hear it. I don't think you need to try to "fix" your vocal tracks in the mix. The performances sound good to me. I just think they could be processed in a way that would allow them to blend in better with the instrument tracks you have.

Then again, I said they were really dry, you wondered if they were too roomy, so who knows? It's pretty subjective.

Haha, I think I'll go with your opinion/description over mine. It's pretty hard for me to figure out what it is that makes it so...but I'll have a tinker with it this weekend and see what happens.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I'm very late to the party. It sounds like you've made some changes already based on the comments.
I guess you had more clapping at some point? Going by that little bit at the start, I think taking it out is the right way to go.
I'd even take out the bit at the start.

I really enjoyed this!
I don't know the B&S song that was mentioned, so that didn't bother me.
I really liked the sound of the flute. It almost sounds like it's a sample lifted from an old raggedy tape recording, but in a good way!

Thanks for sharing. I hope we hear more!

 

[Hot_Mess]

I totally totally love this. Too bad about the subconscious melody rip off. That's the WORST!
My suggestion is that the song would sound more driving, moving along if there was a louder rhythmic guitar behind everything going STRUM strum-a-lum-a-lum-a, etc. I just think it would improve it a notch if the backing music was louder and more rhythmic.

 

[dachay2tnr]

Something sounds out of tune to me in the beginning. Love the flute-y thing. What is that? Midi?

I agree with earlier comments that the guitar sounds like it's in a different place than the vocals. Maybe run a very, very slight reverb over the entire mix to help bring it together.

Also some stereo would help I think. Sounds like most everything is panned straight center. You might double track the hand claps and pan one full left and one full right, and pan the flute-y stuff a bit wider.

Catchy song. Not familiar with Expectations, so I don't know how derivative it is.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I agree with earlier comments that the guitar sounds like it's in a different place than the vocals. Maybe run a very, very slight reverb over the entire mix to help bring it together.

I've been doing this for quite a while on sparse mixes. It can work really well, but we're talking 4-5% wet.
Worth a try, just to take the edge off.

 

[BurningBridges]

I do feel like the instrumental is slightly dark, and then the vocals are very bright in comparison. In theory, the vocals SHOULD be the brightest element of the mix, but I would back off a little bit here to make things seem like they are more in the same space. Other than that, great job! Really enjoyed the song and you have a great voice for this kind of style.

 

[rpm61]

Cool song

I like this song a lot and was surprised by it's fluidity after the warning about it being pieced together like Frankenstein. I agree with earlier posts about volume and space issues, I wanted to hear more guitar with a bigger lo-mid to it and I kept feeling the flute needed treatment, panning and some reverb. Personally I prefer some kind of percussion, but I like the handclaps here as well, maybe beef them up a little.
I really love the lyrics, and the melody is nice, but the vocal came across as weak to me but it had more to do with what I perceived as a lack of conviction, I know that doesn't help much. It may be what you were looking for as a very relaxed style.
I'm pretty sure I heard an English accent too, popular songs are sung in an AMERICAN accent, for future reference. And, I think the title should be "Crazy Bitches", I really like the lyrics.