T
tevans213
New member
Does it require a preamp?
Steenamaroo
...
Yes - All microphones do.
T
tevans213
New member
lol sorry! Thanks for the reply.
Steenamaroo
...
ok. 
If there's any confusion or your a beginner, audio interfaces with XLR inputs have preamps built into them.
Same with mixers.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's the general rule.
If there's any confusion or your a beginner, audio interfaces with XLR inputs have preamps built into them.
Same with mixers.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's the general rule.
J
joshlew
New member
These need something with the benefit of LOTS of gain! I love these. I believe Michael Jackson recorded through these, at least this quasi-fact gets thrown around quite a bit.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
To expand on what Joshlew said, if you have an SM7B the pre amp you use (whether it's built into your interface or a stand alone unit) needs to be on that provides lots of clean gain. The output of the SM7B is very low compared to other mics and the pre amp needs amplify it a lot. Some pre amps get a bit noisy when you crank them up enough for the Shure mic.
I'm sure people here can recommend suitable hardware if you let them know a few more details--I can't help hugely because I don't own any mics that need the amount of gain the 7B wants.
I'm sure people here can recommend suitable hardware if you let them know a few more details--I can't help hugely because I don't own any mics that need the amount of gain the 7B wants.
DarrenVocal
New member
I'm using a Shure SM58 and it nearly needs to be turned on full gain by the Steinberg Cl1 if I were to speak to it about 6 inches far. Does this mean that I'll need to get a better AI for the Sm7b?
M
mixsit
Well-known member
-SM58 –54.5 dBV/Pa, or 1.85 mV @ 94dBSPL
-SM7 Open Circuit Voltage: – 59.0 dB, 1.12 mV
Looks to be about 4dB quieter
Also in these kinds of contexts, if your room noise and preamp noise happens to be well above your 24bit conversion noise- which often can be the case, there's lots of clean digital gain that can be had after it's recorded.
-SM7 Open Circuit Voltage: – 59.0 dB, 1.12 mV
Looks to be about 4dB quieter
Also in these kinds of contexts, if your room noise and preamp noise happens to be well above your 24bit conversion noise- which often can be the case, there's lots of clean digital gain that can be had after it's recorded.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Once the pre amp noise is present and audible, applying digital gain also raises that pre amp noise though. Best to get things to an appropriate level before A to D conversion.
M
mixsit
Well-known member
No doubt. But I was just wondering if could you in some cases get some improvement at a lower preamp gain and make it up later?
I was just thinking about some huge amounts of the ITB gain I've done on some live tacks- not exactly the same I suppose.
Suffice to say both those mics are setup' to be rather close to the source.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
If only that would work it would make everything so much easier but, alas, no. Once analogue noise from the mic or pre amp is digitised, applying digital "in the box" gain amplifies the noise as much as it does the desired signal.
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
I have always wondered what the deal is with preamp gain for the SM7b. My Tascam unit works just fine with it, though the specs say 60dB of gain. Yet, when I use it for hh, I barely turn up the preamp. Even with vocals, I am barely running the X73i input gain to run it. I am starting to wonder if it is a conspiracy brought on by Aussies that just don't like the mic....
lol!
Seriously though, I have never had an issue with low levels from the SM7b. Maybe I just have a bunch of loud sources....
lol!
Seriously though, I have never had an issue with low levels from the SM7b. Maybe I just have a bunch of loud sources....
MrWrenchey
Member
Honestly, I'm the same. I've never even had to turn my input gain past about 75%, maybe straight up at noon on some sources (using my Firestudio Project). Maybe it IS a conspiracy. xD
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Dang, you caught me!
Seriously, it's more a sign of the times that it's sometimes necessary to provided the "clean gain warning". Any decent pre amp should be able to provide sufficient clean gain. However, there are enough cheapies out there that, while the provide sufficient gain, get noisy if you try to actually USE that gain. I'm looking at you, Uli Behringer and your ADA8000 boxes (and many of the cheap mixers too). A good hint about the ones that do this is that, on their gain spec, they don't post a noise figure BTW.
Anyhow, as long as it's clean, 60dB of gain is plenty for the SM7B.
BTW, for hand held, you've probably rediscovered the inverse square law. I'll wager that in HH mode, you're working a lot closer to the mic than in the studio. If you move the same sound source from 8 inches away to 4 inches away, you need 6dB less gain. If you move from 4 inches to 2 inches, it's another 6 dB off the gain you need. Also, if you're talking live, adrenalin always tends to cause vocalists to be a lot louder. Between dress rehearsals and actual performances in the theatre, I notice a lot of actors get about 1odB louder as they project more. Makes setting gain interesting!
Seriously, it's more a sign of the times that it's sometimes necessary to provided the "clean gain warning". Any decent pre amp should be able to provide sufficient clean gain. However, there are enough cheapies out there that, while the provide sufficient gain, get noisy if you try to actually USE that gain. I'm looking at you, Uli Behringer and your ADA8000 boxes (and many of the cheap mixers too). A good hint about the ones that do this is that, on their gain spec, they don't post a noise figure BTW.
Anyhow, as long as it's clean, 60dB of gain is plenty for the SM7B.
BTW, for hand held, you've probably rediscovered the inverse square law. I'll wager that in HH mode, you're working a lot closer to the mic than in the studio. If you move the same sound source from 8 inches away to 4 inches away, you need 6dB less gain. If you move from 4 inches to 2 inches, it's another 6 dB off the gain you need. Also, if you're talking live, adrenalin always tends to cause vocalists to be a lot louder. Between dress rehearsals and actual performances in the theatre, I notice a lot of actors get about 1odB louder as they project more. Makes setting gain interesting!
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Actually, I use the mic for HH in the studio. About 4" away. When recording vocals with the SM7b, I get the vocalist as close to the mic as possible. Sometimes even letting them sing/scream into it as a handheld unit. It never seems to have any issues regarding proximity effect, so it is an easy choice for those who have no 'mic control' skills.
Even if the recording level was low, I don't see why adding gain (post recording) would create an issue. There is not a noise floor to deal with, just because the mic has a low output is there? Am I wrong in this assumption?
Even if the recording level was low, I don't see why adding gain (post recording) would create an issue. There is not a noise floor to deal with, just because the mic has a low output is there? Am I wrong in this assumption?
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Every mic (and every pre amp for that matter) has a certain amount of noise as part of the signal. So long as the signal is sufficiently above the noise, not problem. It's when you get to audible levels of analogue noise that you have to worry because this will be boosted along with the signal when you apply digital gain in the box. Hmmm...that came out a bit wrong. Even at low levels the mic and pre amp noise is boosted...but a change from -110dB to -100dB is not issue. A change from a borderline -70dB to -60dB becomes an issue.
The SM7B, low output level and all, is quiet enough not to be any problem...unless somebody uses a fairly rubbish pre amp which has a noise problem when it's turned up to levels suitable for the SM7B.
Just as an example, I have several Behringer ADA8000 boxes which convert audio (line or mic level) to ADAT. They're fine with line level sources and even with condenser mics on fairly high level sources--SDCs on drum overheads for example. However, if I plug in a dynamic that requires turning up the gain above about 3 o'clock, the noise is very noticeable--so I just don't use them for that. (Should say I only EVER use them live, not in the studio. They were often on radio mic inputs and the RF mics I owned had line level outs--I'd had them for a couple of years before I actually heard the noise issue.)
The SM7B, low output level and all, is quiet enough not to be any problem...unless somebody uses a fairly rubbish pre amp which has a noise problem when it's turned up to levels suitable for the SM7B.
Just as an example, I have several Behringer ADA8000 boxes which convert audio (line or mic level) to ADAT. They're fine with line level sources and even with condenser mics on fairly high level sources--SDCs on drum overheads for example. However, if I plug in a dynamic that requires turning up the gain above about 3 o'clock, the noise is very noticeable--so I just don't use them for that. (Should say I only EVER use them live, not in the studio. They were often on radio mic inputs and the RF mics I owned had line level outs--I'd had them for a couple of years before I actually heard the noise issue.)
M
mixsit
Well-known member
Give this one more shot but rephrase
The question is can pres have better or worse s/n performances depending on their gain settings? If (maybe) it's yes at a lower gain setting, maybe then we could get some improvement letting it come in a little lower at the A/D?
Steenamaroo
...
I get what you're asking mixsit. I just don't know the answer.
"Is the unwanted noise directly proportal to the gain?"
I think Bobbsy's saying the noise is always there and is amplified along with your signal.
I mean, if what your describing was true, we'd just amplify in the box all the time.
"Is the unwanted noise directly proportal to the gain?"
I think Bobbsy's saying the noise is always there and is amplified along with your signal.
I mean, if what your describing was true, we'd just amplify in the box all the time.
T
tevans213
New member
Are most interface preamps decent?
Steenamaroo
...
There are good and bad available.
I've used sm7b with presonus firestudio mobile without issue and I know Jim said his tascam was tip top.
Just look for first hand accounts or at least check out the specs first.
The presonus audiobox has nowhere near the same gain as the FS mobile, IIRC.
I've used sm7b with presonus firestudio mobile without issue and I know Jim said his tascam was tip top.
Just look for first hand accounts or at least check out the specs first.
The presonus audiobox has nowhere near the same gain as the FS mobile, IIRC.