If I defect from Mac to PC I'll need help.

[Bip Bop]

I am seriously considering migrating my studio from Logic on an old quad core Xeon 2.0 GHz MacPro to a PC with Cubase.

My reasons? I am using more and more plug-ins such as orchestral libraries, soft synths, processors and my current cpu is not coping.
I would get a new Mac Pro and lots of Ram except Apple may or may not continue to the line ( especially in Europe) and they don't seem that interested in a new Logic version. I'm fed up with this situation and need to get on. So.....

I'd be willing to spend up to £2500.00 on a very quiet PC (macpro is virtually silent) but does anyone know if I'd have to get new licences for PC versions of all my third party plug-ins? Melodyne, Predator, Cinematic Strings, Waves CLA sig, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 etc etc. And what about my PCIe Motu audio interface? Would that have to be replaced.

Has anyone here done this? It's a bit scary. I need stability and processing power. 64bit, 32GB ram a few large drives ( I can always get extra external ones.

Any advice would be gratefully received although if Apple get their act together I may stay with what I know.
Thanks

 

[witzendoz]

Check out this Sound on Sound review, a year old but the company makes recording computers in the UK. And this one Link, a bit older but the company would have new product.

Alan.

 

[CrowsofFritz]

It sort of sad and awesome to see Dual-Cores being at the bottom of lists. I have a Power Mac G5 and it used to be fucking killer! And then, drop, drop, drop, drop, till it was no longer on any lists.

I still use the G5 with older software and it kicks ass!

 

[Bip Bop]

Check out this Sound on Sound review, a year old but the company makes recording computers in the UK. And this one Link, a bit older but the company would have new product.

Alan.

Thanks for those links, very interesting reading.

 

[dgatwood]

I am seriously considering migrating my studio from Logic on an old quad core Xeon 2.0 GHz MacPro to a PC with Cubase.

My reasons? I am using more and more plug-ins such as orchestral libraries, soft synths, processors and my current cpu is not coping.
I would get a new Mac Pro and lots of Ram except Apple may or may not continue to the line ( especially in Europe) and they don't seem that interested in a new Logic version.

My advice would be to freeze some tracks and grit your teeth for a few months. Tim Cook said that Apple has plans to update the Mac Pro some time this year:

Tim Cook confirms updated Mac Pro coming in 2013

As for Logic, if their upgrade schedule doesn't suit your needs, there's always Digital Performer (IMO, one of the best DAWs on the market), Pro Tools, Cubase....

 

[Bip Bop]

I guess I'll be doing just that, at least for a while! It's not that Logic isn't upgraded often enough but there are these rumours that Apple aren't that interested in developing it much in the future.

 

[Doctor Varney]

If you really have £2500 to spend, why not spend it upgrading or trading up to a newer Mac?
My initial instincts say, if you blow all that on a PC you might regret it.

I need stability...

So do I. I'll trade you for that Mac.

 

[Steenamaroo]

If you really have £2500 to spend, why not spend it upgrading or trading up to a newer Mac?
My initial instincts say, if you blow all that on a PC you might regret it.



So do I. I'll trade you for that Mac.

The "new" Mac Pros were a disappointing upgrade for high end mac users. The most of them are either staying put or waiting for a new 2013 line.

 

[JimmyS1969]

No offense Dr, but you are cursed with your PC experience. Giving advice like this, is like a owner of a 1969 VW bug, telling someone not to buy that Mercedes, because cars have problems. A PC built from the right stuff, is absolutely worthy, and stable. A crap PC with issues to begin with, is just crap.

Did you start over with your PC yet?

 

[Bip Bop]

Well Doctor, I would like to upgrade to a newer Mac but Apple won't let anyone know for sure if and when one will be available and there are rumours that here in Europe, because of stupid EC regulations they may not even be on sale. A top spec'ed iMac has got a lot of oomph although it has no PCIe slots and only one internal drive so I'd have to change other hardware too. Then there's the scenario that I by an iMac and next month Apple bring out a new MacPro....hrrumph!

If I was going to head down the PC route it would be from a company that builds them especially for audio applications, Carillon perhaps? Software such as Vienna Instruments which I use, is said to run better on PCs anyway.

I think I'll just wait it out for now.

 

[moresound]

There is a good thread HERE about putting a super computer together.

 

[Doctor Varney]

No offense Dr, but you are cursed with your PC experience. Giving advice like this, is like a owner of a 1969 VW bug, telling someone not to buy that Mercedes, because cars have problems. A PC built from the right stuff, is absolutely worthy, and stable. A crap PC with issues to begin with, is just crap.

Did you start over with your PC yet?

No offence, Jimmy, but I could predict, almost word for word, this reaction to my post.

If you believe in curses, then what are you doing playing with this technology? Why not just buy a crystal ball? (I'm joking) It was funny at first but now we should have moved on from superstitious nonsense. In fact, if we hadn't, then humans wouldn't have invented computers in the first place. The problem is more likely down to me and my expectations from low budget computing. No curses or supernatural beings involved.

With respect (and I do like & respect you, Jimmy) I have to disagree with your analogy because although it seems clever at first, it's flawed, and we could waste so much time trying to shoe-horn car analogies into a discussion of a completely different technology; not to mention it assumes A LOT about MY situation.

Firstly, you may (or may not) assume that I started with a 'crap PC' with issues to start with. Sorry if you were speaking in general. Nevertheless, I started fresh, with a bundle of very well respected parts. Actually, if I gave you the parts list, I would defy anyone to describe the sum total as 'a crap PC'. According to buyer's guide theory at the very least, it should have built up into a fine PC. In practice, it's a very fast, efficient PC but it developed very early issues during it's set up for which it would take a more experienced person than me to put right. This is a platform issue. Compare the amount of niggly, though typical problems, which contributed to my downtime with the new Mac owner's experience out of the box.

But I'm going to stop here because I won't let this descend into the sort of Mac vs. PC debate so often complained about in forums like these. I for one will not be found guilty of that. Not that there's anything wrong with the debate itself, but the Mac vs. PC comparison of front-end, user experience where the facts are laid out for the buyer to choose, should be considered the most healthy. Please let's not crowd the OP's query with my problems but nevertheless let it be known that these problems I have experienced are not rare - as evidenced by the numbers in search results regarding those problems.

I may be a long way from being an expert in these matters but I do not believe it demands a degree in rocket science to simply reason that if the OP has 2,500 to spend on a PC and he already is experienced with the Mac, that spending that money in a whole new and uncertain world will inevitably bring issues and (depending on his level of patience) some measure of disappointment - IF he expects the thing to 'just work' in the manner to which he has become accustomed. Also, this is just an opinion. All any of us can do is offer our own.

For now I'm sticking with the PC platform and seeking to improve my knowledge - but that doesn't mean I think everyone should use them.

Did you start over with your PC yet?

No, I persevered with it as is. It seems to have 'grown out of' it's slow start up and shut down behaviour of it's own accord. There's a noisy fan (which quieten's soon after post) which I have to sort out and of course, the CD/DVD drive mystery is still ongoing...

It's rather nice, actually. Just the experience of getting it ready to work has been harrowing. I'm currently recording successfully to my new Fostex MR-8 MKII, which I absolutely love!

Kind regards

Dr. V

 

[Bip Bop]

I may be a long way from being an expert in these matters but I do not believe it demands a degree in rocket science to simply reason that if the OP has 2,500 to spend on a PC and he already is experienced with the Mac, that spending that money in a whole new and uncertain world will inevitably bring issues and (depending on his level of patience) some measure of disappointment - IF he expects the thing to 'just work' in the manner to which he has become accustomed. Also, this is just an opinion. All any of us can do is offer our own.

I would indeed expect it to just work! Well more or less. Because Apple bought Logic if that didn't just work it would be unthinkable! But because I have many 3rd party plug-ins, a motu PCIe audio interface etc I would expect a bit of fiddling with settings. And there are always 'issues' along the way. However, I am thinking long-term. If Apple are going to dick about and not show long-term commitment to it's pro end customers, it would make more long term sense to ditch them now. Before shelling out large amounts of cash!

I went straight from an Atari 1040 ST running C-Lab Creator to a G3 PPC running Cubase many moons ago. Then through G4 ( switching to Logic, which is of course a descendent of C-Lab, when it was bought by Apple) finally to a Mac Pro. So I am a confirmed Apple man and flinch when I think of Windows OS. But my loyalty is to my work and I'll switch in a heartbeat if I think my workflow will benefit.

 

[Doctor Varney]

I'm sorry, Bip, I wonder if you could clarify? Specifically, what are your concerns regarding Apple's 'long term interest in Logic'? Coming to the end of your computer's resources I can understand, but what, exactly, does this other issue mean to your music making? Sorry if this sounds 'dense'.

Are you saying that you have an old Mac which is struggling with a later version of Logic? You realise there are ways of minimizing the load on the computer, when it comes to storing large libraries and plugins? I personally find it best (safer) to keep OS and software versions in line with the age of my hardware. As long as it works, I'm not too bothered by progress.

I think it's worth noting that setting up a PC entails more than just "a bit of fiddling with settings"...

So I am a confirmed Apple man and flinch when I think of Windows OS. But my loyalty is to my work and I'll switch in a heartbeat if I think my workflow will benefit.

I have a lot of respect for your attitude, actually. These things are just tools and I agree, our loyalty should first be to ourselves and our work.

 

[JimmyS1969]

I think it's worth noting that setting up a PC entails more than just "a bit of fiddling with settings"...

Again, no offense Dr, but is statements like these, that I feel are inaccurate. Yes, buy a PC off the shelf, filled with a bunch of bloatware that causes havoc for a recording PC, and you may have some work to do.

Build a PC from the ground up (correctly), and you have a working machine. Only a few performance setting steps involved. It just isn't fair to say that a PC requires more work. It has more to do with what one chooses to put in it IME. Or what machine you buy to start with. And yes, you will always hear people post with problems. That is why they post. The majority of users that have no issues, do not post anything, because there isn't a reason to.

It is not the norm, to hear the issues like you have had. I have never had them, but I do not own your computer either. Most issues are caused by a fault somewhere in the hardware, or compatibility with what is installed. Even more can happen when trying to fix other things, that have nothing to do with the initial problem.

The thing about MS stuff, is you have flexibility with more hardware and software from other sources than Apple. It can lead to confusion, if used haphazardly.

I plan to get a MAC myself someday, but not because I am unhappy with my PC. I am just curious where all the love comes from. That may be a while tho, as my PC works flawlessly. Actually, all 7 of them do. Each has their own purpose tho.

And I was being vague in my last post. I was not directing anything in a way to offend you at all. I was not trying to be a dick.

 

[Steenamaroo]

post removed.

 

[Bip Bop]

Specifically, what are your concerns regarding Apple's 'long term interest in Logic'?

Here's one example. I use a plug-in called Melodyne which in case you're not familiar with it, is a program for tuning/timing vocals or any audio including polyphonic material. It is one of my most indispensable tools especially as I often record less than perfect vocalists. Anyway, I notice Cubase 7 has something similar built in (although I don't know if it is as good). I would like to think that Logic 10 (?) would keep up with and hopefully go one better than the competition because it would save so much time to have the ability without having to open a plug-in, play the audio into it, continuously switch back and forth between the two programs and then bounce the finished edited track and delete the unused files. Thankfully Logic does have 'bounce in place' which is a cool and time saving feature but it's time they added new capabilities.
That is just one example of what makes a DAW that gets regular enhancements and new useful features, attractive.
Once again one hears rumours that Apple are going to turn Logic into a glorified Garageband as a download only and which is not a professional's tool.
Maybe it's all unfounded fear but that's my beef! I would like to know what their plans with my tools are but they're too secretive.

Are you saying that you have an old Mac which is struggling with a later version of Logic? You realise there are ways of minimizing the load on the computer, when it comes to storing large libraries and plugins? I personally find it best (safer) to keep OS and software versions in line with the age of my hardware. As long as it works, I'm not too bothered by progress.

My Mac isn't struggling with Logic but with programs like Addictive Keys, Cinematic strings or multiple instances of other more modern plug-ins. It would be nice for example, to have Ozone 4 on several sequencer tracks without my computer grinding to a halt.

 

[Doctor Varney]

Okay, Bip, I can see where you're coming from now.

So one question you want answered is whether Cubase will fill Melodyne's (within Logic's) shoes? The answer to that might be found through using a trial version of Cubase.

Try it with the Mac first and see if it suits your purposes. There must be many ways you can test this before splashing out on a PC. You just need to be specific and learn to spot unbiased users of the gear you're interested in. (That might exclude talking to me, I know...)

Cubase though, is just one software solution, among many. There might be many more lurking about which might do what you need. For instance, I notice Harrison's Mix Bus is getting good reviews at the moment (there's a thread on it just above yours at the moment). You should be able to run 3rd party plugs through that, so perhaps you could continue to use Melodyne?

I'm not saying "Don't use a PC", that would be potentially dissuading you from a chance to try something you might love. All I want to do is make you aware of the pitfalls inherant in switching to the Microsoft way. Please be aware that the two biggest strengths of the IBM platform - low prices and flexibility - are also potentially it's biggest weaknesses. The latter puts up no signs for thin ice and the former... well, as the old saying goes: "You get what you pay for".

Think about it. £1200 might get you a new, up to date Mac base unit with enough overhead power for your workload. I presume you could still use your monitor and peripherals, which would save a couple or so hundred pounds. I wonder what you'd get from trading in your old machine? You would probably know more about that than me. I also assume that entitles you to Apple Support; something which I think is worth taking into account. You could demo Cubase and Harrison's Mix Bus (plus a few others) and if it turns out MS compatibles are your only way forward, all is not lost, as you can ostensibly run Windows on your Mac...

But those are things to research carefully first. Couple of things to consider - first, just how efficient and stable & cost effective Windows via Bootcamp actually is in practice. Secondly, if considering Cubase under Mac OS - you'll want to investigate claims/ rumours that Cubase performs less well on the Mac than it does on the PC. Learn to discern between personal niggles or whether any shortcomings are going to actually slow you down in practice.

Really, I think this is a much bigger question than it first appeared. Now that you've clarified it, I think it will be best to start by choosing your front end software which you're intending to use and work back to the hardware, ensuring all the system requirements are met. Sounds obvious, I know, but I believe there's probably a lot more options to investigate first, before jumping ship.

If you do decide to go with a PC, then I strongly recommend that unless you know exactly what you're doing, (like Jimmy for instance) get it built by a local expert and insist on a warranty which covers servicing & support at the point of sale. Otherwise, (and this also goes for off-the-shelf packages) you could wind up on the phone to tech support comprising outsourced workers, for whom English is a second language; trained merely to parrot common troubleshooting options off a checklist and who seem to have a talent for referring you to Microsoft (who will likely just send you back again to where you started) - for each and every little component that plays up.

And yes... if you get all that right, it could be wonderful... could be. At least until the next Microsoft update...

Best I can do, I'm afraid. Hope this helps.

Kind regards

Dr. V

 

[Doctor Varney]

Post removed. What's the point if no one's going to read it properly.

 

[miroslav]

With all due respect, Doc.....you should refrain from giving ANY computer suggestions from a point of "knowledge", since you've had nothing but bad experiences, that from the general consensus here, were primarily of your own doing.

You seem to like to get deep into computer system reconfigurations, logs and registry settings even with a computer out of the box....but you also seem to have NO clue about what you are doing...and I don't mean that as a personal dig, just a perceived fact based on your countless "Oops, what did I do now?" threads of the last few months.

Heck, I remember doing that same kind of stuff back in 1993-94, when DOS and Win 3.1 was still fresh, and back then there was still a lot of "unknown territory" when configuring a computer for audio....but these days, it's about 10 times less complicated than you've made it out to be....so I do think you're point of view is pretty screwed...I mean skewed.