After years of mixing with headphones, I just got near-field monitors

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PTravel

PTravel

Senior Senior Member
I just got a pair KRK Rokit 8" near-fields. Up until now, I'd been mixing with a good pair of Shure studio phones. Wow, what a difference! I got home late and didn't have a lot of time to play with monitors, but I put up a few mixes. The difference between the "inside the center of your head" sound field you get with headphones, and having a proper sound field spread out in front of me is like night and day. Right away I could hear errors I had made in the mix, some subtle but some really profound, for example I had the vocals running far too loud. These near-fields are brilliant.

My only quibble is some very slight EMF incursions. However, I'm using unbalanced cables at the moment. I have a KRK Ergo coming in two days, and that will take an S/PDIF feed directly from my Fast Track Ultra and, in turn, will be connected to the near-fields with balanced lines (and also a subwoofer, which is supported by the Ergo), and I expect that will take care of EMF incursions.

Seriously, I used to think I could mix just fine with headphones and, all things considered, I did fairly well. However, I can't wait to spend the weekend fixing the mixes so that I can get them right. I should have bought these a long time ago (and before I bought that extra microphone. :))
 
Yep, monitors are the way to go.

Lots of folks think they can mix on headphones--and you can use headphones to get a mix that sounds good on headphones. But it probably won't translate to speakers. The opposite is true though--if you get a mix that sounds good on your monitors, it will also sound good on headphones! (I just bought my second set of near fields, and they're way more "honest" than my first set--so I'm going through the same fun you are: listening to old mixes, hearing the problems, remixing etc.)
 
Just wait til you get around to acoustically treating your room. It really gets easier to make mixes that translate well!

I would put that next on your purchase/build list. Especially if you are going to use a sub. The Rockit 8's and a sub are what I do most of my mixing with. :)
 
jimmys69 said:
Just wait til you get around to acoustically treating your room. It really gets easier to make mixes that translate well!

I would put that next on your purchase/build list. Especially if you are going to use a sub. The Rockit 8's and a sub are what I do most of my mixing with. :)
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Oh, I don't think that will happen any time soon. What started as a second bedroom in our rather small apartment has become my "man cave" computer room. My wife calls my computers my "girl friends." She hit the ceiling when she saw me unpack the Rockits, and I'm still on her excrement list this morning. Fortunately, the Ergo is being delivered to my office so I'll be able to sneak it in and it will "blend" with all the other smallish black boxes I've got sitting around -- she probably won't notice it. :)
 
Just make panels at your office or a friends, and bring them home finished. She won't have a clue as to the cost of them. Which is around $30 per 2' X 4' X 4" panel, depending on where you live. :)
 
Even the translation from headphones to cheap monitors is very noticeable. Listening on as many different systems as possible still seems the best way to get a mix that sounds good everywhere.

I put the tracks from a CD I know well and think is mixed well into Reaper yesterday to get a new reference point - this should be done with any monitors, IMO. First thing I noticed with these tracks is they were loud and went into the red frequently. Not sure what to make of that, but my mixes sounded comparable to the pro tracks (although not as loud, of course).
 
mjbphotos said:
I put the tracks from a CD I know well and think is mixed well into Reaper yesterday to get a new reference point - this should be done with any monitors, IMO. First thing I noticed with these tracks is they were loud and went into the red frequently. Not sure what to make of that, but my mixes sounded comparable to the pro tracks (although not as loud, of course).
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I wonder about going into the red zone too... I stop short of it but I'll be buggered if I can hear a difference if the occasional transient gets above 0.0 - been meaning to ask about that.


Ah wives... never had one so never had to worry about them telling me what to spend my money on...! The other half of my band is married, with small child. His days of buying gear for the hell of it are long gone! :D
 
PTravel said:
for example I had the vocals running far too loud.
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That's because there's no cross bleed with headphones. The cross bleed you get from speakers, sound from the left getting into the right ear and sound from the right getting into the left ear, makes things in the center sound louder (at frequencies where your hearing is sufficiently directional).
 
Im still in the earphone stage! i need to grab the rokits really bad :(
 
bouldersoundguy said:
That's because there's no cross bleed with headphones. The cross bleed you get from speakers, sound from the left getting into the right ear and sound from the right getting into the left ear, makes things in the center sound louder (at frequencies where your hearing is sufficiently directional).
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I'd never heard of that before, but it makes absolute sense. Thanks for the explanation.

Today, I hooked up a KRK Ergo and my subwoofer and shot the room. Now, I'm going through old mixes from a demo album of my show and fixing them. I find it's much, much easier to create a sonic "hole" for the vocals through a combination instrument placement in the sound field and some tweaking of the eq. Before I had been trying to do it with primarily with vocal volume, which also contributed to the over-loud vocals, I think. I'll never mix with only phones again (unless my wife and neighbors start complaining :)).
 
hey this is interesting stuff and god dam im a little jealous!! good work man

Ive been thinking about going to near field too, but from what ive read you room is more important on the sound.... Being a mega poor arse whos also renting, ive sort of had to try real hard to not go out and buy some near field monitors. with that in mind I can only see sticking with my flattering headphones and Logitech speaker combo and trying to "calibrate" to a good mix in the same genre?... im cringing at these words because I also know that your brain/ ears can do funny things to sound perception..

hey those $30 panels do sound pretty good though. real sorry to be a pain but do you have a link of how to make them?

this is actually my first post btw. please be kind.... but what other options do you have when you don't have the cash... just demo until you win the lotto?

good stuff anyways man

Karl
 
Glad to hear you've moved on to monitors! Such a difference!

As far as making your own acoustical panels, there are quite a few people who have shared their builds around the interwebs... here's a few i'd say are spot on.

acousticsfreq.com/blog/?p=62
kindohm.com/blog/2008/08/27/do-it-yourself-acoustic-panels/

If explained right, these should be wife/girlfriend friendly... No need to tell her they're for tuning your room, just tell her they're to help "soundproof the man cave" ;) Even though they won't help much as far as sound-proofing, she'll never know.
 
Karl_ said:
hey this is interesting stuff and god dam im a little jealous!! good work man

Ive been thinking about going to near field too, but from what ive read you room is more important on the sound.... Being a mega poor arse whos also renting, ive sort of had to try real hard to not go out and buy some near field monitors. with that in mind I can only see sticking with my flattering headphones and Logitech speaker combo and trying to "calibrate" to a good mix in the same genre?... im cringing at these words because I also know that your brain/ ears can do funny things to sound perception..

hey those $30 panels do sound pretty good though. real sorry to be a pain but do you have a link of how to make them?

this is actually my first post btw. please be kind.... but what other options do you have when you don't have the cash... just demo until you win the lotto?

good stuff anyways man

Karl
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Yeah Karl, I can honestly say that room treatments are the best investment I have ever made. And no, you will never be a 'pain' with me man.

I was lazy, and should have taken pictures of my last build, but I had some sh*t going on in my life, and neglected to share with people here. I am usually good about that... Anyway,

Here is what I sent to a member who asked the same questions:



Yep. 1x2's and 1x6's (3/4"x1.5" and 3/4"x5.5" actually). Cut the 1x6" pine 24' long for top and bottom. Set the 6" side setting vertical on floor, lay two 48" long 1x2's flat on its 1.5 edge, and attach flush with the end corners of the 1x6, at the floor. Repeat for other end. Then lay in two 2" rockwool pieces. Now just add two more 48" 1x2's on the face corners to lock in the rockwool. Wrap with cloth.

Your finished panel will be 24" wide, 49 1/2" tall, and 5 1/2" deep. <this should help to describe the build a bit more.

Make sure to dig through the piles of wood to find as straight of pieces you can find. It there is a bow to it, make sure the center faces out, when assembling. The cloth will pull in the middles when wrapped.

I wish I had taken pictures the last time I built some.....



This was based on building panels made of 2-2" thick, Roxul 80. You can also get it in 4"-2'x4' panels at the same price, depending upon where you live. SPI is where I got mine from.
 
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Jimmys69!

thank you so much man. this should help out heaps!

So far this forum is sweeeeeet!

cheers

Karl
 
I love my monitors (KRK VXT 6's) but I always find myself finishing mixes on my iPod headphones... or in the car.
 
DallasB said:
I love my monitors (KRK VXT 6's) but I always find myself finishing mixes on my iPod headphones... or in the car.
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LOL. I know what you mean. My car has a very good sound system, plus I have a very long commute to and from work. Repeated "auditions" in my car helps me zero in on the best mix. I've just done the second re-mix/master on my current project, using my KRK Rokit 8s. After a number of "listens" in my car, I'm pretty sure that my 3rd re-mix will be the one that is, as one of my old professors used to say, "good enough for government work." Seriously, though, the difference in my mixes between headphones-only (and car auditioning) and my Rokits is really night-and-day.
 
Goes back to what I said on page 1, listen to your mix on as many systems as you can. I'm tweaking my songs now, and use my truck's system as the first step after mixing - amazing to bump up (or down) something on monitors/headphones, think you've got it right, then listen and realize the 'bump' was too much, or now needs ....... (fill in blank). I started with all 15 songs, and now down to 7 that are still being tweaked. Once I've got them all to that point, I'll put them all back-to-back on a disc, and try on my home stereo (with its 12" woofers) for any other subtleties.
 
GONZO-X said:
why would anyone spend years mixing in headphones?
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Because that's what I had, and having not mixed with monitors, I thought they were good enough. And, frankly, for what I do with my mixes, they more or less were. The monitors provide a substantial difference in quality, but not in application.
 
GONZO-X said:
why would anyone spend years mixing in headphones?
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Why would anyone spend years doing anything they were happy doing ?
It's a myth to say that mixing can't be done with headphones. And it's unhelpful to say that mixing can only be done with headphones.
Stay away from unhelpful myths.
 
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