Problem with low signal on mic

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zan1976

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Greetings fellow homerecorders!

Now here's the problem: I have a home studio with a PC and a Roland Edirol UA-25ex sound card. I've been trying to record through the microphone but the signal is very weak. I mean I even play the flute 1 cm from the mic and it doesn't go to the reds! To compensate this, I've been forced to boost the gain, and this creates an awful lot of noise. What could be the reasons?
My OS is Windows 7 64bit, and the software is Cubase 5.1.0, build 105. I downloaded edirol's drivers for windows 7 64 from Roland's site, but I also tried the setup on my laptop with Windows XP, with the drivers for XP from the cd that came with the hardware. Same problem. I also tried recording with a different mic and a different cable. No luck.

Any ideas would be more than welcome!

My entire setup in case needed:
PSU: Coolermaster SilentPro (500W)
CPU: Intel Core i7 2600 (s1155, 3,4 GHz, 8MB)
M/B: Gigabyte P67A D3 B3 (s1155, P67, DDR3)
HDD: HDD WD SATA II 1.5 TB 64MB RE4
SSD: OCZ Agility 3 Series 120 GB SSD (2,5'', Sata 6Gb/s, AGT3-25SAT3-120G)
OS: Windows 7, 64bit
(if any additional info is needed, please let me know)
 
First suggestion: your Edirol has a built in compressor/limiter. Make sure that's switched off while we're testing things. It's possible that it's in a mode which is knocking down your signal levels.
 
As is always asked when someone posts this kind of thread: What do you mean by "low signal"? What DB level, in numbers, do you reach? Not going into the red doesn't mean your signal's too low. You don't want to go anywhere near the "reds". You don't need to be peaking any louder than -6db (and I'm being generous) and your average level can be down at -12db, or even way lower.

No need to try to get "as close to 0db without clipping". That's way too hot.
 
You mentioned all info besides the important one, how you connect the mic with balanced or unbalanced cable, which kind is the mic dynamic or condenser, if it is dynamic and you connect it with unbalanced cable it will be with a lot weaker signal than if you connect it with balanced cable, also dynamic mics are a lot less sensitive than condenser mics and need a lot more gain, also as the dude before me said it must not go in the red zone or it will be clipping, instead you should just turn the volume on your monitors.
 
Thank you to everyone for their quick replies.

The mic is the tbone sc400, large diaphragm condenser mic
The cable is the Klotz MY206 STEREO/BALANCED MONO 2-CORE (sorry, not allowed to post links, you can google them if you need more info)

I am aware that I shouldn't go in the red (not that much of a newbie!). I just thought that it would give you an idea. If you take such an... extrovert instrument as the flute and... scream with it 2 cm from the mic (and I mean literally, 2 cm) wouldn't you expect some sort of clipping if the signal was anywhere near decent?
But indeed, I should have been more specific: With no gain at all, db is under -20. I have to get the gain over 50% to get the flute to around -16, by which time background noise itself is somewhere around -20. And I repeat, this is a flute 2 cm from a large-diaphragm condenser mic!

Also, to answer Bobbsy's suggestion I have also tried recording without the compressor, too (hell, I think I tried recording with all possible combinations of edirol's knobs!)

Any other suggestions?
 
zan1976 said:
Thank you to everyone for their quick replies.

The mic is the tbone sc400, large diaphragm condenser mic
The cable is the Klotz MY206 STEREO/BALANCED MONO 2-CORE (sorry, not allowed to post links, you can google them if you need more info)

I am aware that I shouldn't go in the red (not that much of a newbie!). I just thought that it would give you an idea. If you take such an... extrovert instrument as the flute and... scream with it 2 cm from the mic (and I mean literally, 2 cm) wouldn't you expect some sort of clipping if the signal was anywhere near decent?
But indeed, I should have been more specific: With no gain at all, db is under -20. I have to get the gain over 50% to get the flute to around -16, by which time background noise itself is somewhere around -20. And I repeat, this is a flute 2 cm from a large-diaphragm condenser mic!

Also, to answer Bobbsy's suggestion I have also tried recording without the compressor, too (hell, I think I tried recording with all possible combinations of edirol's knobs!)

Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...
I'll let someone else hopefully help with the level question, because I've never recorded a flute, I don't know your mic, and I'm not familiar with the Edirol.

But just to touch on what you said about back ground noise. If it's actual background noise, and not internal noise (like mic, wire, or recorder noise), then that back ground noise will be there no matter what, unless you find the source(s) and eliminate it/them. If it's part of the signal that's going into the mic, it's always going to be in the same proportion to the level of the flute. Get more gain, get more noise, unless you get rid of the noise.
 
A few other things to check.

In your recording software, ensure that all sliders are at 0dB for recording (should be default position).

If there is a software mixer or console or control panel for the device, ensure that the levels are not turned down and that any software pad is not engaged.

Does your usb port provide sufficient power? The Edirol specs say 480mA is required, which is close to the maximum that USB provides for, but not all motherboard USB ports provide that. So, a separately powered hub may be needed.

I do agree that you should have no trouble getting plenty of signal with a close mic'd flute and condenser mic. BTW, where (relative to your flute) is the mic positioned?
 
So, how do we know if it's internal noise or not?
The fact that I'm recording the flute is not quite relevant, even when recording, say, voice or guitar, the signal is still low.
I don't know about Ian though, I'm more of a Yusef Lateef kinda guy myself!
 
zan1976 said:
So, how do we know if it's internal noise or not?
Click to expand...

It's hard to describe on paper (or whatever this is I'm typing on), but you should be able to tell the difference. Is it a hissing sound that sounds like it's being created electronically? Crackling? As opposed to "room" noise, like the fridge in the next room, an open window, furnace, etc....
 
Do flute players in general respect Ian Anderson? Or is he considered a hack or somewhere in between?
 
Well from the pictures that i see this cable is with xlr jack only from the one side and 1/4 from the other, so get a cable that is xlr from the both sides and it will be fine.
 
How is the mic positioned?

If you already know this, apologies, but...

The mic has a back and front. The back is less sensitive than the front, and the mic is side-addressed (ie the mic faces the sound source from its side) as opposed to end-addressed (ie mic faces the sound source from its end). So be sure that the mic is not oriented wrong way around.

Again, apologies if you're not that newbish!
 
funkyto said:
Well from the pictures that i see this cable is with xlr jack only from the one side and 1/4 from the other, so get a cable that is xlr from the both sides and it will be fine.
Click to expand...

If the mic is producing any signal then phantom power is getting through. Phantom power on the TRS input would be extremely unusual so the cable is almost certainly XLR on both ends.
 
To check for "internal" noise, you need to close the input of the interface or preamp. You can't check for noise with the inputs just left open.

One way to do that is by making up a male xlr connector with a shorting wire or a 150 ohm resistor soldered between pins 2 and 3, and plug that in to the input.
 
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