Drum Mic Question

[TimLSD]

i recently bought the cad 7 piece drum mic kit. i am just starting and dont no that much but wow do these mics suck. i was thinking of returning them and buying the shure set with the 3 sm57s and the beta52. in that case i wouldnt have any overhead mics. could i use my vocal condenser mic for now until i can afford new overheads??

 

[witzendoz]

While they are not the bees knees of drum mics, the 7 piece set is not very expensive for 7 mics. I would think that reasonable results should be achieved from these mics, why do they suck for you?

Alan.

 

[TimLSD]

the drums just sound horrible on the recordings. like i said im new at this so ,its probably something that im doing.

 

[240v]

the drums just sound horrible on the recordings. like i said im new at this so ,its probably something that im doing.

Have you eq'd and compressed? If you get the sweet spot with the effects, you can make things sound much nicer.

Also, what interface are you using to record? In what way do they sound horrible?

 

[witzendoz]

Have you eq'd and compressed? If you get the sweet spot with the effects, you can make things sound much nicer.

Also, what interface are you using to record? In what way do they sound horrible?

Before you ask this, I would ask: what does the room sound like? What do the drums sound like in the room? How good is the person playing the drums?

Then I would ask, how are you micing the drums?

A good sounding kit in a good room will only need a small amount of EQ if any, forget the compression until you get the rest sorted.

Alan.

 

[RAMI]

i i am just starting and dont no that much but wow do these mics suck

If you "don't no much", it might be smarter to wait until you "no a little mo" before blaming equipment.

the drums just sound horrible on the recordings. like i said im new at this so ,its probably something that im doing.

Probably.

Like Witzendoz says in his post:

what does the room sound like? What do the drums sound like in the room? How good is the person playing the drums?

Then I would ask, how are you micing the drums?

A good sounding kit in a good room will only need a small amount of EQ if any, forget the compression until you get the rest sorted.

GregL, who probably gets the best recorded drum sound on this forum, was using (and might still be using) the same set of CADS as you have. His drum recordings sound awesome and pro. There's a lot more to getting a good recording than just throwing mics randomly around a drum set and then claiming they suck.

 

[Greg_L]

Wow, thanks Rami. That's high praise coming from you.

Your stuff kick ass too. When I first got here it was your drum tracks that really made me realize we drummers could get great drum tracks at home with regular consumer gear.

So yeah, I use the Cad-Pro 7 pc kit with a SM57 on the snare. Are they the best mics ever? Hell no. Will they work nicely? Sure will. They're just mics. They pick up what you put into them. If what you hear "sucks", then you're doing something wrong before the sound even hits the mic. Your playing, head selection, tuning, or room sucks. Maybe a combo of all 4 things. It's not the mics.

I will say the overheads in the mic kit can sound a little harsh in a bad room, but then again, bad rooms sound bad anyway. The kick mic needs a lot of EQ if you want a modern metal kick sound, but it can do it. Still, the fundamentals are most important. Playing, tuning, room. Get those right and these mics will work fine.

 

[TimLSD]

yea like i said i am new at this. anyway im using a tascam neo 2488. the drums have all new heads on them top and bottom. and are in tune. i am trying to record in my basement now. which is half finished. i assumed that i was placing the mics wrong and needed some EQ. i was told to use a sm57 on the snare so i will definitely go out and purchase one of them

 

[marshall409]

I'm not sure you listened to to advice you were given here...

An SM57 will not magically make your snare sound better. You have to be a lot more specific about what you're not liking about the sound you're getting. Maybe post a sample mix of the whole kit with little or no eq/comp on it so we can see what you're working with.

Mics are mics. The difference between a cheap mic and a sort of less cheap mic is going to be negligible until you know how to use them properly and treat your room.

Let's hear what you've got so far!


Adam

 

[witzendoz]

I'm not sure you listened to to advice you were given here...

An SM57 will not magically make your snare sound better. You have to be a lot more specific about what you're not liking about the sound you're getting.

Exactly, a SM57 on the snare is not going to fix the "but wow do these mics suck" problem. If you can't get a half decent sound from the Cads then there is a bigger problem.

Cheers
Alan.

 

[ollie99]

I have the CAD 4 piece mic set with behringer c-2 overheads, The room is probably not the best but I got good results, probably nothing compared to RAMI's and Greg_L's but the results were miles better than I expected. And after recording I realised the xlr cables for teh 2 toms were not working so the overheads were picking up them as well, and they still sounded good! I think I may have been lucky as that was my first time doing it properly, but oh well, I was effectively using a 4 piece kit which show it can be done! I do remember using quite a bit of EQ on the kick and snare

 

[RAMI]

I realised the xlr cables for teh 2 toms were not working so the overheads were picking up them as well, and they still sounded good!

Cool. I don't mic my toms. Just 4 mics: Snare kik and 2 overheads. With the right placement, room, etc....you can get a good sound. I have to admit that my toms have sounded a little weak in my last couple of recordings, so close micing probably wouldn't have hurt. But my skins need to be changed, so I blame it as much on that. The point being, how drums sound before they're miced is much more important than which mics you use and how many of them.

 

[ollie99]

Cool. I don't mic my toms. Just 4 mics: Snare kik and 2 overheads. With the right placement, room, etc....you can get a good sound. I have to admit that my toms have sounded a little weak in my last couple of recordings, so close micing probably wouldn't have hurt. But my skins need to be changed, so I blame it as much on that. The point being, how drums sound before they're miced is much more important than which mics you use and how many of them.

I will keep that in my memory bank of useful tips

 

[witzendoz]

Cool. I don't mic my toms. Just 4 mics: Snare kik and 2 overheads. With the right placement, room, etc....you can get a good sound. I have to admit that my toms have sounded a little weak in my last couple of recordings, so close micing probably wouldn't have hurt. But my skins need to be changed, so I blame it as much on that. The point being, how drums sound before they're miced is much more important than which mics you use and how many of them.

I actually mic everything when tracking, however I don't always use every mic when mixing. I find that the kick, snare and overheads are the main drum sound. I sometimes gate the toms (even though I am not a big gate fan) so that when they are hit there is a volume increase if the tom was hit too soft (blame the drummer) however another method that works is to volume / mute automate so that the tom mics are only open when hit, this works better on builds where gates don't open early enough to let the soft hits through.

One mic I always gate is the mic I put under the snare, just to keep the snare rattles out of the mix.

Just a few clarifications on my method:

1) all the drum mics have to be checked for phase problems before hitting record
2) the drum sound should still be good if all the mics are on
3) the drum sound should still be good if some of the mics are off
4) the drum sound should still be good if only the kick, snare and overheads are on
5) if the drum sound is no good start with the room, then the drums (tuning, skins, player) before reaching for the eq, gates, compressors.
6) when using eq, the only drum that should need eqing is usually the kick, maybe some minor eq on the other drums with a bit of clean up eq cut (no boost) on the hats and overheads

And, the method of getting the drum sound also depends on the type of music being recorded and the desired final drum sound, this should be decided at the recording stage not the mixing stage.

Alan.

 

[aaronaycox]

One of my previous drummers used the CAD mics you have. When I began recording I had no idea what I was doing with a set of drums. Like you, my primary way of tracking is by using the Tascam 2488Neo. I experimented until I found what worked for me. I tried mixing the drums on my mixer and running two channels out to the Neo so that I could use all seven mics while incorporating the internal preamp of the NEO.

My final solution, and the best sounding was to begin with the kick mic. You will likely have to move the mic around a million times until you get the desired sound. On my drummer's kit (and in the room) the kick mic was half into the port hole.

The next step should be your snare. Clip the mic onto the snare, or use a mic stand. Again, you will have to make adjustments.

The final part of my set up was to use the two condensors as overheads.

In the end, the only thing I ever had to do was add a little reverb to the snare and kick. It is time consuming, but the results are worth the effort.


As for the CAD mics; I was so impressed with the mini condensors that come in the CAD kit that I purchased a pair to record my acoustics with. The mic is rarely the problem. I know that different mics perform differently, but in the end you can do a lot with very little. When I began recording I only had a pair of cheap Behringer mics for vocals, acoustics, tracking amps, etc. I made those two little microphones do everything. I still have them on my shelf today.

 

[murphyd311]

I experimented until I found what worked for me. I tried mixing the drums on my mixer and running two channels out to the Neo so that I could use all seven mics while incorporating the internal preamp of the NEO.

My final solution, and the best sounding was to begin with the kick mic. You will likely have to move the mic around a million times until you get the desired sound. On my drummer's kit (and in the room) the kick mic was half into the port hole.

^^^ This.

I have the same set of CAD mic's. I got them around a year ago and have just finally figured out how to get a great sound out of them. At first I just slapped them on the kit and hit record. Now I take the time to get every mic in place, listen through some ear buds, re-adjust as needed, EQ a little bit through the mixing board, repeat and rinse until I am happy. At a minimum it takes me 20 minutes, sometimes as much as an hour. I alternate between isolating different mic's and the whole kit. The drummer used to get annoyed after a while, but after he heard the difference he is more understanding.

There are many articles on recording drums (some sticky's here) that help out quite a bit. I recommend reading those and experimenting.

 

[ollie99]

Cool. I don't mic my toms. Just 4 mics: Snare kik and 2 overheads. With the right placement, room, etc....you can get a good sound. I have to admit that my toms have sounded a little weak in my last couple of recordings, so close micing probably wouldn't have hurt. But my skins need to be changed, so I blame it as much on that. The point being, how drums sound before they're miced is much more important than which mics you use and how many of them.

Also I quite like the idea of being able to pan the toms from slightly left centre, slightly right centre, then even more right, to make it sound as if you were there hearing things from left to right. How do you pan your kit? if at all

 

[guitarguy101]

I use a 4-mic Glyn Johns set up, and when I first started, I noticed a couple things:
1: The cymbals sounded overly harsh, which I later realized was due to room acoustics, after I transported my set up to a treated room at my school.
2: The levels were way off. This was because most drummers can't hit every single drum and cymbal with a level volume.
3: I was inept at using EQ and compression, which really threw off my sound.
Try to see if you can narrow down what is affecting your sound.

 

[TimLSD]

One of my previous drummers used the CAD mics you have. When I began recording I had no idea what I was doing with a set of drums. Like you, my primary way of tracking is by using the Tascam 2488Neo. I experimented until I found what worked for me. I tried mixing the drums on my mixer and running two channels out to the Neo so that I could use all seven mics while incorporating the internal preamp of the NEO.

My final solution, and the best sounding was to begin with the kick mic. You will likely have to move the mic around a million times until you get the desired sound. On my drummer's kit (and in the room) the kick mic was half into the port hole.

The next step should be your snare. Clip the mic onto the snare, or use a mic stand. Again, you will have to make adjustments.

The final part of my set up was to use the two condensors as overheads.

In the end, the only thing I ever had to do was add a little reverb to the snare and kick. It is time consuming, but the results are worth the effort.


As for the CAD mics; I was so impressed with the mini condensors that come in the CAD kit that I purchased a pair to record my acoustics with. The mic is rarely the problem. I know that different mics perform differently, but in the end you can do a lot with very little. When I began recording I only had a pair of cheap Behringer mics for vocals, acoustics, tracking amps, etc. I made those two little microphones do everything. I still have them on my shelf today.

yea i figured if i get the rite mic placement i could get a way better sound. i recently got all new heads on the drums and tuned them properly so im assuming the bad sound is mic placement and the room.