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purerad
New member
I found this about nufinish..............don't know if it's accurate or not but an interesting database
Nu Finish Car Polish
Nu Finish Car Polish
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Lance Lawson
New member
First off if I thought I'd be damaging my tape machine I wouldn't have tried the treatment in the first place. I've owned this machine since 1979 and it ranks as one of my favorite possessions.
I'm sorry to inform you that 20 years from now there most likely won't be a reel to reel tape community. The tape manufacturers are not exactly getting rich right now and the market continues to dwindle. So unless someone comes up with a home brew for making magnetic tape at home those decks surviving will be tapeless. With or without NuFinish
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
From the link posted...it's more than a polymer and ceramic compound. There's another solvent in there, plus water.
Don't forget to post the scientific data when you have it....if you're looking to prove anything.
diggy_dude
Now 169% diggier!
Unless there's something else in it that isn't listed, the polymer is actually a surfactant.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
From the Nu Finish website:
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Lance Lawson
New member
You're not supposed to use any kind of wax on a matte painted surface. Using NuFinish or conversely Turtle Wax will allow the chalky compounds to imbed into the wood grain making it difficult to remove.
Polymers that crosslink are setting up via chemical cure as opposed to "drying". Witness catalyzed auto finishes that will set up firm in a sealed container once the catalist has been added. Some catalyzed finishes such as catalyzed nitrocellouse lacquer set up both from the action of the solvents leaving by evaporation and the effect of O2 on the catalyst. A catalyzed lacquer once it has cured cannot be re flowed with the addition of lacquer solvent as can traditional lacquers.
Magnetic tape is not a vinyl, wood or a rubber. It's oxide surface is more akin to being a "painted" plastic as the coating is not actually melded into the base tape.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Don't forget the pinch roller and tach roller (if your deck has one)...they're rubber, though I get the feeling that you've convinced yourself the Nu Finish will not be transfered to them.
You must have some really good vision that you are able to simply "observe" and see what is happening at the molecular level.
Saw this on YouTube...check out the rug on the guy's head.
The water still beads after 52 washes...and it's a "space-age" polymer, there's no formula like it!!! An independent test lab confirmed the Nu Finish was the shiniest of all!!!
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Lance Lawson
New member
If my pinch roller goes south I'll install a new one. If I don't want to install a new TEAC roller I'll have the roller re covered with a modern super rubber compound. Space Age Polymer? Then Space Age rubber roller simple.
As for being convinced that my present roller will survive I'm 95% certain that it will. Chemicals like NuFinish are nearly always active when in a wet condition. Nine times out of ten it's the carrier solvents that present the problems.
Notice that NuFinish comes in a plastic vinyl type plastic container and not a glass or metal container. So exactly how vicious should we expect NuFinish to be?
As for being convinced that my present roller will survive I'm 95% certain that it will. Chemicals like NuFinish are nearly always active when in a wet condition. Nine times out of ten it's the carrier solvents that present the problems.
Notice that NuFinish comes in a plastic vinyl type plastic container and not a glass or metal container. So exactly how vicious should we expect NuFinish to be?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Well....it's all over your tapes, so those tapes are going to be polishing the rubber to a nice glaze, but I understand that now you've painted yourself somewhat into a corner since I noticed you hit several "tape" forums on the Internet in the last few days preaching the value of Nu Finish like a barker in a traveling medicine show with 100% conviction that this IS the cure to SSS, even though there has been no lab testing or scientific data to support anything you have to say...so at this point you have little choice but to just push on with your sales pitch, otherwise if you back off now, you'll be virtually "tarred-n-feathered".
Maybe if you create enough buzz, six months from now it will come back full circle as some sort of valid proof because others will also be buzzing about it.
Like I said...don't hesitate to post up actual lab data when you have it.
Maybe if you create enough buzz, six months from now it will come back full circle as some sort of valid proof because others will also be buzzing about it.
Like I said...don't hesitate to post up actual lab data when you have it.
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Lance Lawson
New member
Well....it's all over your tapes, so those tapes are going to be polishing the rubber to a nice glaze, but I understand that now you've painted yourself somewhat into a corner since I noticed you hit several "tape" forums on the Internet in the last few days preaching the value of Nu Finish like a barker in a traveling medicine show with 100% conviction that this IS the cure to SSS, even though there has been no lab testing or scientific data to support anything you have to say...so at this point you have little choice but to just push on with your sales pitch, otherwise if you back off now, you'll be virtually "tarred-n-feathered".
Maybe if you create enough buzz, six months from now it will come back full circle as some sort of valid proof because others will also be buzzing about it.
Like I said...don't hesitate to post up actual lab data when you have it.
Where are you located? I'd be happy to send you the treated reel of 407 so you can see for yourself. If so can you be counted on sending the reel back to me?
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
oooooh ......... balls in your court miro
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Hey....I'm all for you finding a cure to SSS, honestly...and I'm sure the tapes look/feel cleaner after the Nu Finish, since it is a polish/sealant.
Thing is...you really don't know what is happening to the tape on a molecular level, and while most people will take the attitude that they have nothing to lose since they are dealing with tape that is possibly ready for the garbage...I did also notice on one of the other tape forums that the idea has already been put forth to use the Nu Finish as a preventative, on perfectly good tapes with no SSS.
I'm just saying...before you go publishing your cure for cancer in the NEJM...it might be wise and responsible to have some actual scientific data. Sending a tape to me will not get you that...I'm not a lab, but since you initiated this and are now spreading it all over the forums like wildfire...it's on your dime to get real lab data...plus, what's the effect over time?
Are you really just going to go by one guy on a forum claiming he restored his 1993 pile of mold and goo and it's still like-new after all these years???
As I mentioned awhile back (and I think others did too)...I've tried a few ways to clean SSS tape...and there are ways to get it "clean-n-shiny" and it actually appears to play fine for a bit, but none have really *cured* the SSS to date.
Not to mention...there's also the consideration of audio quality. Does this "sealant" in some ways hinder the magnetic particles from performing as they should??? Is the record and playback audio quality improved or unchanged from original???
All these things can only be ascertained with microscopes and serious chemical testing, not just talking about it on the interwebs, and anyone who at this point decides to smear Nu Finish on perfectly good tapes as some prophylactic treartment...is foolish.
Thing is...you really don't know what is happening to the tape on a molecular level, and while most people will take the attitude that they have nothing to lose since they are dealing with tape that is possibly ready for the garbage...I did also notice on one of the other tape forums that the idea has already been put forth to use the Nu Finish as a preventative, on perfectly good tapes with no SSS.
I'm just saying...before you go publishing your cure for cancer in the NEJM...it might be wise and responsible to have some actual scientific data. Sending a tape to me will not get you that...I'm not a lab, but since you initiated this and are now spreading it all over the forums like wildfire...it's on your dime to get real lab data...plus, what's the effect over time?
Are you really just going to go by one guy on a forum claiming he restored his 1993 pile of mold and goo and it's still like-new after all these years???
As I mentioned awhile back (and I think others did too)...I've tried a few ways to clean SSS tape...and there are ways to get it "clean-n-shiny" and it actually appears to play fine for a bit, but none have really *cured* the SSS to date.
Not to mention...there's also the consideration of audio quality. Does this "sealant" in some ways hinder the magnetic particles from performing as they should??? Is the record and playback audio quality improved or unchanged from original???
All these things can only be ascertained with microscopes and serious chemical testing, not just talking about it on the interwebs, and anyone who at this point decides to smear Nu Finish on perfectly good tapes as some prophylactic treartment...is foolish.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
No...it was out, the line judge called it.
I'm done with the tennis match.
Lance is simply going to keep claiming it works...and so good luck to him and all those Hi-Fi enthusiasts on the other forums who are hungry for a cure and are lining up for their bottle.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
This is a freaking side show and one of the most dangerous bit of advice anywhere, totally unsupported by longer term data, scientific studies or logic for that matter. I hope that no one's taking this seriously. It's a joke and that you, Lance, continue to push this in such a fashion is downright disturbing. Still, I can't help but laugh that anyone would even consider something so stupid and potentially harmful.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
And I think this is the primary point that drives my "no thanks" attitude with this...tape manufacturers had no idea the binder was going to let go from the substrate as a result of hydrolosis after years/decades...NO idea, and yet it happened...after time. Lots of TIME. And yet somehow it seems, Lance, that you are under the assumption that if it seems good now its good forever. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not wanting to flame anybody or any idea, but Nu Finish is very clear that Nu Finish polish should not be used on plastic. What do you think the substrate is made out of? I understand that you see this as a surface treatment, that the substrate is irrelevant because you are applying the product to the surface, but how do you know that the product doesn't penetrate the oxide and binder reaching the substrate? And if so what are the long-term effects of the product on the substrate material which is made of that which Nu Finish cautions against applying the product?
One of my favorite products for cleaning up and polishing painted surfaces on machines I refurbish is a product called TR-3. I don't think you can get it anymore. It does have abrasives in it as well as sealants, but what strikes my memory relative to this thread as well as what I'm presenting above is that TR-3 states that it actually soaks into the paint and brings oxidation to the surface to be removed...deep cleaning. Nu Finish is a totally different product and I'm not suggesting it behaves the same as TR-3, but I'm talking about this idea of a product not just working on the very surface, but working within and through the surface material which , molecularly, has wide open spaces.
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Exactamundo!
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Lance Lawson
New member
If the original report of using NuFinish on sticky tape hadn't included that the treatment was successful when first applied and remained effective 14 years later when the tapes were played again I would have abandoned the idea right then and there. However the original report did include this. I had tried treating my sticky Ampex in the late 1990's to no avail and baking was unknown to me. So 30+ tapes of my own original music were tossed. Add to the fact that I personally contacted the discoverer of the NuFinish treatment and he promptly messaged me back I considered a good sign. He further expounded upon the process and assured me that yes the treatment worked as he claimed. With that I proceeded to try the treatment.
That said I've put my results in my OP with photos and a description of how it was done. BTW the discoverer used a much more aggressive approach than I did. My process was clean and fairly gentle to the tape and deck. So yes I refined what what first done.
I'm going to treat more Ampex as I've procured more sticky tape which is pretty easy to find as you know. Next I will be treating tape with the pure polymer that I've extracted from the full formula. This will ally any fears of abrasives. I've been criticized a lot on this forum and that's OK by me because I know what I'm doing. As for needing an official lab to tell me I've been successful I could very easily say to everyone here that this is a home recording forum. The operative word is HOME. Well the only way to make real recordings is in a dedicated professional studio. Now how many will agree with this mindset? That's exactly the mindset that members have about this treatment and its results. Now take it or leave it but the work will continue and don't be surprised if a dedicated product based on this material turns up on the market.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'm sorry...I'm not interested in picking up the tennis match again...but I just had to laugh and post a response when I saw that.
A "report"...?
The guy was a schmuck who left a bunch of tapes somewhere down south in non-climate controlled conditions with crazy humidity and 100 degree temps for about 6 years until they became a pile of mold and goo...
...and out of lack of anything better, he decides to glop Nu Finish on everything, and then post it years later on the Internet as some "cure" with no real data or anything other than his opinion...
...and you are calling that a "report"?!?!
Without some scientific data and a study of longterm effects, you will never get a single studio pro to put it on precious master reels of big name artists, but I'm sure if you bottle your polymer concoction, there will be plenty of the "home" tape enthusiasts buying it, if that is your goal...to sell to the P.T. Barnum crowd and just make some money.
It will be easy to sell to them...that's the same crowd that buys wooden knobs for their stereos because they reduce audio jitter...or some such nonsense.
I know...I know...I'm a naysayer and extreme skeptic and I should keep my opinions to myself if I'm not going to be constructive and supportive of your "experiments".......
GCalo
Member
Now this is a great point I had not considered.
We need a chemist.
Any chemists here?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
There are probably dozens of "plastics"....ever notice how Krazy Glue comes in a plastic container and doesn't stick to it...but it will stick to some plastics.
Yes...I've been saying it all along, without scientific lab testing and data it's just a lot of kitchen-sink guesstimating....
..."it makes the tape look clean-n-shiny, therefore it must be good for the tape"...
Yes...I've been saying it all along, without scientific lab testing and data it's just a lot of kitchen-sink guesstimating....
..."it makes the tape look clean-n-shiny, therefore it must be good for the tape"...