too much gain on vocal mics!! levels all on zero!!

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jasonwick

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My chain is

condenser or dynamic mic
Dmp3 M Audio Pre Amp
Edirol UA-25 Audio interface

My problem is, lets say singing into an sm58 with the Edirol 'Input/sens/' on '0' out of a possible '10' I am achieving around -18 / -12 dB,

Now adding the Preamp into the chain with its setting on 'Low gain' and the gain switch on '0' and with the edirol Input/sens still on '0' I am clipping a foot away from the mic!!

The manual for the Pre amp say turn gain to achieve a good constant level but I cant put any level through it because of this.

whats going on here?????
thanks
 
So you're clipping, even though you're 1 foot away from the mic and all your levels are down??

Weird.
 
Im using REAPER, Im not aware of any INPUT gain setting within?? by the way the EDIROL does not have any preamps installed
 
What kind of cables are you using to connect the DMP3 to the UA-25?
 
fat_fleet said:
yes it does, or else you'd get no signal when you bypass the DMP3
Click to expand...
Yep.

I just googled "Edirol UA25." It has mic preamps in it. Two clues:
- It wouldn't have mic inputs if it didn't.
- This, in the manufacturer's description: "Includes a pair of high-quality microphone preamps using premium analog components."
 
Right....he probably has the Line output of the Edirol preamp...feeding the mic inputs of the M Audio preamp.

You don't need two preamps in the chain.
 
ok thanks guys..I think thats it...

So Im running two preamps.. but does this mean then I cannot use the DMP3 with the Edirol audio interface, or for that matter any audio unterface?? as acording to 'sjjohnston' any interface with mic inputs would all have preamps installed??
 
Any interface with mike inputs has mike preamps inside it.

You don't need a separate preamp.

The strong likelihood is that your preamp line outs are going to the mike inputs of the Edirol.

To use the DMP3 you need to go from its line outputs to a line input on the Edirol.
 
If you want to use the DMP3, just go into the TRS socket in the centre of the multi XLR/TRS input. The Edirol is expecting Line level on that input--turning the input gain right up is equivalent to a +4dBu nominal input and you can attenuate it further from there.

Bob
 
If you want to use the DMP3 ...
Click to expand...
While the Edirol's manual isn't perfectly clear, it appears that doing this should work fine (except: turn the Edirol's input level all the way down, not up), but you'd still be running it through the Edirol's mic preamp. The block diagram on the front of the manual shows the XLR and TRS jacks in the same place, with both running through the mic preamp (which is the triangle - or "two-triangles-one-on-top-of-the-other" - symbol just before the box labeled "limiter"). The specs say the nominal input level of the XLRs is -60 to -20 dBu, and the nominal level of the TRSs is -36 to +4 dBu. What's most likely is that there's just a pad on the TRS inputs that knocks off 24 dB (relative to the XLR inputs) before running to the mic preamp.

In other words, if you use the DMP, you take your mic input, raise its level with the DMP, then reduce it, then raise it back up again with the preamp in the Edirol box. Whether this is preferable just to running the signal directly into the Edirol box isn't cut and dried. Among reasons using the DMP might make sense:
- The mic/preamp interface is a sensitive and variable one (which is among the reasons why mic preamps verge on a religious obsession, while the dozens of other little amps in a signal chain are mostly ignored). The DMP may have a different input impedance than the Edirol, and may otherwise interact with the mic and its signal in ways that are subtly different than the Edirol.
- Using the DMP, and the way the Edirol behaves with a hotter input, as an effects box, basically - i.e. as the opposite of the "straight wire with gain" notion of what a preamp is for. This approach is sometimes taken (and often not) with mic signals. Of course, it's SOP with, say, an electric guitar's signal, where running amps into amps in order to color, distort and overdrive things is pretty much the whole point of the undertaking.
 
Exactly. Except for extremely expensive microphones into even more expensive specialist pre-amps, I'm afraid I'd rather use the minimum processing at the input and add any colourations I desire for myself in a controlled way with EQ.

However, if the OP is dead set on using his pre-amp via the Edirol, then the way to go is into the line level input which is the TRS jack. At least this gives the proper level adjustment range.

Bob
 
thanks guys, yes i have now ran into the Edirol line inputs from the DMP with a jack instead of the xlr mic inputs..this helps/cures the problem. Thanks Ive read up a lot more on Unbalanced/balanced, jack xlr etc etc.. and im a little less ignorant now!!

Im gonna experiment some more tonight but so far I dont like the 'new' sound Im getting now ive added the DMP. I guess I was hoping a dedicated preamp unit would add a little quality to my vocals, as I say more experimenting tonight :)

I guess most of you guys out there using hardware preamps and compressors are not using a bundled audio interface like the edirol then?? what are you using as an interface?? what would the jump up be?

Thanks a whole lot again for all your intelligent polite replies..
 
You're going to need a very expensive pre-amp to make any kind of dramatic difference to your sound quality--and even then you'll have to run the output of the pre-amp into a line input on an interface.

Frankly, if you're concerned about the quality on your vocals, you're far better off experimenting with different microphones and microphone placements.

Bob
 
thankyou again guys, the water has become a lot less murky...great help as always
 
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