Recording Live Vs Individually/Mainstream Bands off time?

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bhefner88

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Two Parts:

1. When recording live as opposed to individually is the drummer generally the only musician listening to a click track and the others work off his beat while listening to monitors?

2. Are there any instances that I might take a look at in which well known songs were recorded with a swaying time or were off time altogether? Generally speaking most recordings are RELATIVELY in time in the sense that if one member changes tempo the others adjust, but I'm wondering what songs you know of that wouldn't keep time with a metronome if I were to play them in sequence by big bands.
 
bhefner88 said:
Two Parts:

1. When recording live as opposed to individually is the drummer generally the only musician listening to a click track and the others work off his beat while listening to monitors?

2. Are there any instances that I might take a look at in which well known songs were recorded with a swaying time or were off time altogether? Generally speaking most recordings are RELATIVELY in time in the sense that if one member changes tempo the others adjust, but I'm wondering what songs you know of that wouldn't keep time with a metronome if I were to play them in sequence by big bands.
Click to expand...

1) Usually just the drummer will have a click (if anyone has one at all). Everyone else just rolls with him.

2) I can't throw out any specific examples, but I'm sure they are out there. If I were searching for a ebbing/flowing tempo song, I'd start looking at some old rock stuff. Maybe punk bands.
 
Well, alot of stuff over the last 70 years has wavering tempos but you'd not really notice because much of the time, as the drummer was setting the time, if they slowed or sped up, the whole band went with them.
I mean, there are some examples of terrible time wavering, but they tend to be on obscure private presses rather than well known mainstream releases. A funny one that springs to mind is on the legendary "Moon blood" LP by Fraction. There's a song on it, I think it's 'This bird', where the band get all excitable and the sound becomes a mush as everyone goes out of time. It's quite funny. I guess they kept it in because the feel of the track is otherwise really good.
Then there's a bit on the Rolling Stones' "Jumping Jack Flash" where there's a fractional out of time and tune bit though legend has it that a certain stoned party fell on the console during mixing and caused it and they liked the effect. Can't verify that though.
I saw an interesting interview with Paul McCartney once where he was saying that the Beatles were such a tight band that when they played live, they always managed to keep the timing the same as their records even though no one could hear themselves because of all the screaming.
And remember, using clicks are a relatively recent development in recording. Drummers usually kept the time and it wasn't unusual for a little wavering. But as I said earlier, it wasn't really noticeable, mainly because it was an expectation that musicians could keep time. It was actually jazz drummers in the late 50s, early 60s with the onset of free jazz that began the whole 'liberate the drummer from timekeeping' thing in modern music.
 
As a sidetrack, I wouldn't be surprized if most songs recorded before the popularity and regularity of the click in sessions would waver in time, if only slightly, when put up against a metronome. But also remember that not that many songs carry the same tempo or time all the way through. During the disco era, certain drummers were noted for the fact that they were metronomic in their precision at playing to 120 beats per minute which kind of suggests that it wasn't necesarilly de rigueur at that time.
 
Listen to 'Lay Down (Candles in The Rain)' from the 60's... The song gradually speeds up all the way to the end... Starts at around 80bpm and finishes at around 90+
 
Inner City Blues (Marvin Gaye cover) - The Mayfield Four...the drummer takes the tempo and runs with it at the end and the band just follows along. Great song.

Recording with a click is a pain to me because I've played so long in a band that, imo, has tempo problems. Anytime we speed up a song, I can hear my high school band teacher yelling "DONT RUSH THE TEMPO!!!!". So I guess I'm well seasoned in the live setting and my noobness to structured recording is shining through.
 
Very Superstitous - Stevie Wonder speeds up as well.

One advantage to having the drummer play to a Click Track is that you can piece together drum parts from two Takes if the Drummer makes a mistake or if if likes certain things on one take and certain parts of another take. Without a Click.. its possible that the two Takes would Vary in Tempo... Now ... Not all Drummers can play to a Click Track and Groove while doing it.
 
BentRabbit said:
Listen to 'Lay Down (Candles in The Rain)' from the 60's... The song gradually speeds up all the way to the end... Starts at around 80bpm and finishes at around 90+
Click to expand...
The Melanie version ? An interesting example. It's like alot of songs that seem to speed up naturally. But I'd never've noticed it !
 
bhefner88 said:
Two Parts:

1. When recording live as opposed to individually is the drummer generally the only musician listening to a click track and the others work off his beat while listening to monitors?

2. Are there any instances that I might take a look at in which well known songs were recorded with a swaying time or were off time altogether? Generally speaking most recordings are RELATIVELY in time in the sense that if one member changes tempo the others adjust, but I'm wondering what songs you know of that wouldn't keep time with a metronome if I were to play them in sequence by big bands.
Click to expand...

All of my recordings are done live but I never send a click track to the drummer. Sometimes I think it makes the tune feel un-natural or mechanical if the drummer is to focused on keeping time. But I suppose if I ever get a drummer who can't keep tempo to save his life then I'd probably break out the annoying clicking noise. :)

Speaking of mechanical, I feel like the majority of today's mainstream music producers have become too reliant on using sampled drums or drum loops, some of which just sound awful. Don't get me wrong, I've heard live drums that sound amazing and live drums that sound shitty and vice-versa, but sampled drums just lack a lot of the "human" aspect of music.

Jazz recordings are notorious for drummers not keeping a steady beat. I have one Ray Charles track ("I Got A Woman") where the drummer ends the tune almost 10 clicks faster than he started it. So, I guess, to summarize, I would only use a click track if the drummer is having a really hard time keeping a steady beat.
 
Interestingly I was faced with this problem today, probably why the thread caught my eye.

The drummer WANTED to play to a click but when he got the cans on he had too much worry about the click itself and couldn't remember the song, in the end it was just a case of "f**k it, we'll do it live" and then he layed down the rhythm guitar parts, really fell into place perfect.

Amazingly well rehearsed young gentleman
 
GazEcc said:
and couldn't remember the song... Amazingly well rehearsed young gentleman
Click to expand...

Allllllrighty then! Lol.

I was reading that the Beatles' producer claimed songs naturally speed up in their more exciting moments along with the human heart. I agree with him. It makes the song come alive instead of sounding robotic. I tracked everything to a click but programmed subtle tempo changes where I thought the song's energy increased (or decreased.)
 
grimtraveller said:
The Melanie version ? An interesting example. It's like alot of songs that seem to speed up naturally. But I'd never've noticed it !
Click to expand...

Yup!
Really noticeable when you stop the song at the end and immediately start it over... I was making a backing track of the song for a local gal to use as an audition tape when I first noticed it...

:)
 
Also remember that a click track is just a guide, and that a good drummer can be pretty elastic when it comes to forward or pocket playing. Timing elasticity is every bit as important a tool for conveying emotion as dynamics and lyrical content.
 
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