Monitors or Cans?

i was sampled on the b-side of a top five hit in the UK indie charts in '91...Im happy to name drop...they were a Bay Area marxist rap band called Consolidated...thank you to all my fans :)
I KNEW there was a reason I wanted to be your acolyte.

:D
 
Jesus, mixerstranger, no one called you a lemming. How could anyone call you anything when you won't even let anybody know who you actually are?

Newsflash. I acknowledged and confirmed who I am about a year ago.

Eric Sarafin (Eric Sarafin) | blogg på Myspace

So you used an NS-10 or three in your life, and made some decent recordings with them. So has every freakin' engineer worth their salt in this racket.

Exactly. We finally agree. NS10s are actually a good reference monitor, despite your issues with their history.

Enjoy,

Mixerman
 
I think the only point Glen is making is that NS10's were/are nothing *special* AFA monitors go...and that there could have been some other monitor that was accepted by engineers as a "reference"...thus becoming somewhat of a "standard" for a period of time.

This seems to be often underscored by the fact that most every engineer that ever mentions NS10's, also goes on to say how crappy of a monitor they were and how awful they sounded.
I myself have only heard/used them a few times, long ago...and was kinda' of surprised why people used them, because they really bugged my ears, but I was figuring if others are using them I should just force myself to accept their sound.

I would think most seasoned engineers could choose any monitor and make it a common reference, and I often wonder how much Yamaha drove those choices....?

So like...what's the common reference monitor these days....?
 
So like...what's the common reference monitor these days....?
You still find refurbed NS-10s sitting on plenty of commercial desks.

But I think we're at the cusp of that question becoming more and more irrelevant these days. With the trend away from commercial studio space and towards self-owned and self-run "home" studios with Internet collaboration, the need for a convenient touchstone speaker to attract engineers to a "foreign" studio is diminishing; everybody can have their own preferential monitor in their own preferential space now.

G.
 
I think the only point Glen is making is that NS10's were/are nothing *special* AFA monitors go...and that there could have been some other monitor that was accepted by engineers as a "reference"...thus becoming somewhat of a "standard" for a period of time.

And I'm telling you it's irrelevant. It's the NS10s that made their way into every studio for decades, and what made them a popular mix monitor was their midrange. It doesn't matter if there were a hundred other monitors that could have easily taken that position. You guys are talking history of lemmings, and all I'm saying is, regardless of HOW NS10s became popular, they're actually great for mixing. Yes! I don't want to listen to midrange speakers at home. But I DO in the studio. Simple.

I've tried out dozens of monitors on my meter bridge. Some are great, some are usable, most aren't close to usable. NS10s fall into the "great" category where mixing is concerned. Period. And as Glen pointed out, every engineer worth their salt has made great records on NS10s. There's a reason for that, and that reason is they have great translation properties unless you're in a fucked up space, or have managed to make a poor amp choice.

I use HD1s now for the same reason I used NS10s. They both expose the midrange. And all I know is whenever I go out of town (which I do often), I'm okay to work so long as there are NS10s available. This is critical for someone in my position who must make music, and not have to spend his entire session second guessing how the monitors are going to translate.

Glen is right when he says "it's about the music." It's always about the music. But when your monitoring is in the way, it's in the way of the music. He's got it backwards. Monitors that translate well make it so that this problem is off the table, allowing the mixer, engineer, producer, artist, whoever, to concentrate purely on the music and how it's affecting them on an emotional level. No one can do that if they're confused or lacking confidence in their monitors.

Further, because NS10s were so prevalent for so long, I can play back mixes on NS10s and the artist usually knows what they're listening to.

Enjoy,

Mixerman
 
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OK, everyone relax. You all aren't disagreeing with each other as much as you think you are.



(I can't believe I'm telling people to calm down :eek: )
 
And I'm telling you it's irrelevant.

It may be irrelevant from a historical perspective...but not everyone liked those monitors (they really bugged me, mostly the stark midrange).
So that's the point about there being other monitors that could and do get the job done as well as the NS10's, which managed to become the most prevalent, at a time when there weren't as many near-field monitors to choose from in that price range.

If you can't stand how a monitor sounds...why use it?
And yeah...there's that whole room thing, which may not have been an issue in pro studio digs, but for the home/project crowd, not sure if the NS10 would be the "go-to" monitor...but we'll never know since they're pretty much gone now.

Anyway...I'm not really sure what the debate is about...use what you prefer, or what you can afford. ;)

I currently use Mackie HR824 monitors...but dream of a few brands/models in the $3k-$5k range.
I remember when the Mackie 824's first came out, for awhile people were referring to them as the new NS10...NOT because they sounded anything like the NS10 ('cuz they certainly don't), but mainly because they worked well, had good freq response curve, and were fairly inexpensive AFA studio monitors go, and also easy enough to haul around from studio to studio so you could have a "standard reference", and they did end up in a lot of pro studios next to other, very expensive monitors, though I don't think they became quite as entrenched as the NS10's...but I think that's mainly due to the near-field market opening up and many more relatively inexpensive, but decent sounding monitors showed up.
 
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Oh for Christ's sake. If anonymous mixer stranger wants to simultaneously make like he has the largest johnson on this BBS and hide it behind a mask, so he can sell more copies of his book, then let him. We all need to make a living, which is hard enough to do these days. And most of what he does come clean about is worthwhile information.

The only advice I have for him is that if he really wants to come across as the professional he claims to be, that he should show a little more relaxed self-confidence and a little less defensive ego. He'll attract a lot more readers and buyers that way.

G.
 
The only advice I have for him is that if he really wants to come across as the professional he claims to be, that he should show a little more relaxed self-confidence and a little less defensive ego. He'll attract a lot more readers and buyers that way.

G.
^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^ although he's gonna deny that he said anything defensive or for that matter , anything that's not perfect.
 
^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^ although he's gonna deny that he said anything defensive or for that matter , anything that's not perfect.

Interesting. And funny!

I let it go, but now I'd really love for you to show me my opening salvo.

Yeah. It's gonna be tough. I know.

Thanks,

Mixerman
 
Interesting. And funny!

I let it go, but now I'd really love for you to show me my opening salvo.

Yeah. It's gonna be tough. I know.

Thanks,

Mixerman
The dynamic duo does this to everyone that claims to know anything here. One makes a claim and the other swears to it. Try to disagree with them and your person gets stepped on. The difference between you and them is you've actually worked in real studios and are an accomplished engineer.:p
 
What "dynamic duo" are you refering to?
What "claim" is being made that isn't true that the "other one" is swearing to?

WTF are you talking about and trying to stir up?

If you're going to try to suck-up and blow smoke up someone's ass...
...at least say what you mean, don't just dance around it. :p
 
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