Recording drums (noob qst)

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Ashtrey

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What would you do if you had only 1xshure Beta52,1xSM57,1xSM94, 2xRode NT3s and 1xRode NTK and you would like to record a drumset. (in this case 2 toms, a snare, kick, 2 crashes and a ride.)

How would you go forth? Mic positions etc..

And I`ve only got 4 XLR inputs on my digi002rack.. :D I`m planning on bying an ADA8000, Behringer. (I've heard it works good comparing the price)

Well, I've tried a lot of things, but I`m still waiting for the NT3s! So I`ve tried the SM57 as a sort of room mic, about 2,5 meters away from the drums, and the SM94 for snare. (As the storemanager adviced me) I've also tried the SM57 for snare, and the SM94 between the two toms.

The biggest issue is how to capture the snare, toms and hihat. The beta52 and the NT3s are obvious ofcourse.

Any help appriechiated! Thanks

PS: Sry bad english!
 
Beta 52a on the kick... deffinately..

SM 57 on the snare.... deffinately...

nt3's overheads... deffinately..

thats 4 inputs.

i'd keep the ntk right out and preserve that baby for vocals...

the sm 94's???... room mics?
 
Have you tried combinations of fewer microphones?
Consider thinking about the drumset not as individual drums, but as a single instrument.
Try to capture that sound well first, then experiment with spot mics to bring up the level of different drums.

For example, give this a try:
Set up your beta 52 wherever on the kick you think you're getting the best sound out of it.
Then set up the NTK above the drum set looking down at the snare.
If you're set up to be able to listen to your monitors at the same time that the drums are being played (that is, you have a separate control room where you can monitor what the mics are hearing without hearing the direct sound of the drums) this part will be easier, but either way, what you're gonna have to do is play around with the placement of that overhead mic a lot.

Either listen through your monitors as someone else plays or record a bit of the drum part that you'll be playing for the song. Listen to the drum sound you are recording and figure out what is wrong with it.
Is the snare too loud or is the floor tom too soft?
Move the NTK closer to the floor tom side of the kit.
Are the cymbals too loud?
Try physically lowering the height of the cymbals above the drum kit.
Is the High hat too loud?
Try using a smaller set of hats, or turning the NTK a bit away from the hats.
Is it close but just not quite right?
Move or twist the mic in very small increments until it sounds like a drumset.

If you can get a great sound out of just these two mics (and, honestly, you can get a great sound out of just one - skip the kick drum mic and try a whole bunch of positions of the NTK out in front of the kit at various heights and distances from the kit), then you can start getting great sounds augmenting these two with the others you have.
Google these phrases:
Glyn Johns Drum miking method
Recorderman

They're both darn good ways of getting great drum sounds with 4 or fewer mics.

The biggest part of you getting a good drum sound is gonna be listening carefully and experimenting a whole lot with your mic placement.

All that aside, though, in the sample you played, the playing and recording technique for both the guitar and the bass jumped out at me as having a lot more problems than the drum recording. So that might be something to work on next.
 
Thank you both for the answers.

All that aside, though, in the sample you played, the playing and recording technique for both the guitar and the bass jumped out at me as having a lot more problems than the drum recording. So that might be something to work on next.

:laughings:

That last sentence was pretty funny.. but you are correct. :) The bass and guitar is just plugged directly into the rack.. and I didnt put enough effort into the playing perhaps.. it was just to give you an idea how the drums sounded.

Anyway, since I have used a lot of money in my eyes, that`s about 1500 euro on mics and micholders/stand, drumchair and one cymbalstand, cables, I just have to use them all. But I will try to position one mic at the time as you said. I am not using a seperate room for monitors, though it is a possibility where Im at, but I may record and then listen.

I will do the google search. Thanks. :)
 
BTW: I own a copy of the book "mixing with your mind". Dunno if you've heard of it. But a friend of mine is borrowing it, so when I get it back I hope to do something better out of it.
 
Anyway, since I have used a lot of money in my eyes, that`s about 1500 euro on mics and micholders/stand, drumchair and one cymbalstand, cables, I just have to use them all.

Absolutely the wrong mindset.
If you were a carpenter with a whole set of carpentry tools, and you had to hammer in a nail, would you go out to the truck and get every piece of equipment you have? No. You'd use a hammer.
Use the right tool for the job.
Use only the right tool and no more.
If you can get a good sound with one mic and you don't have a more compelling reason to use more than "I paid a lot of money for these other mics," then you shouldn't use more than one mic.

Examples of compelling reasons to use more mics:
1) The drum kit sounds good, but this is a standard pop tune where the kick and snare are providing most of the beat, so I need to spot mic them so I can bring them out a bit more.
2) I'm liking my one mic drum sound, but I would like to have a big stereo spread drumkit on this tune, so I'm gonna experiment with some stereo micing techniques.
3) I'm liking my drum sound, but <reason based on objective judgements you've made about the drum sound and how it will sit in the particular track you are recording>.

Bad reasons to use more mics:
1) I paid a lot for them, so they have to get used.
2) I don't like the sound I'm getting from one mic, so I'll just start throwing more on there.
3) It's what they do in pro studios.

These are bad reasons because:
1) See above carpentry analogy. Use no more than the right tool(s) for the job.
2) If you can't get a pretty good drum sound out of one mic, then your problem isn't how you're miking your drumkit. Your problem is the sound of the drums, the sound of the room the drums are being played in, or the person doing the playing. I've recorded some really good drummers, some mediocre drummers and some bad drummers (myself being included in that last category). It's pretty consistent that the recordings of the good drummers sound good, the recordings of the mediocre drummers sound mediocre, and the recordings of the bad drummers sound bad.
3) Never worry about what they do in pro studios. If that's gonna be your guiding ethos, then you shouldn't be wasting your money on recording at home. Just pay a pro who has a studio to worry about the recording. I promise they have way better equipment and way more experience than you, so they can set their mics up however they like.

The more mics you have set up, the more opportunity you have for them to start interacting in weird ways when the same sounds hit them at slightly different times. Further, with lower end mikes, off axis ugliness/weirdness can start to be a problem. If you had a mic closet full of Neumanns or similarly priced high end mics, this wouldn't be as much of a problem as they often have very nice, sweet off axis responses that don't get all ugly when combined with other direct source sounds. But even the engineers who do have a closet full of Neumanns still have to be careful where they set up all those mics so as to ensure their various phase relationships stay appropriate. And I guarantee you, engineers with much more expensive mic lockers than yours (mic lockers full of mics that each cost more than your entire compliment of mics) refrain on a daily basis from using all their mics at once. They get their money's worth out of mics by knowing when to use them, using them then, and leaving them alone the rest of the time.

Look, I'm not saying don't experiment with all your mics. But do it as blindly as possible with regards to how much they cost. Try everything out in every position you can think of. Be open minded to the possibility that you already had everything you needed before you spent that last big chunk of change. Be open to the possibility that, even though you just spent a big chunk of change, you still don't have everything you need. The most important lesson you can learn in recording is that the final sound is everything. So get as close to the right final sound as you can while doing the least possible amount of extra miking. You'll find that if you lose any notion of how it should be done and start from the ground up with just one or two mics, it's actually pretty hard to screw up the engineering aspect of it.

And yeah, I know it stings to have some mics you paid a buttload for just sitting there collecting dust. But try them out on every new sound you record and see if you can find what they're right for. If you just can't find anything they really sound great on, then they just aren't the mics for you. Sell them to somebody who can use them and start saving up for something you can use. It stings to take a loss like that, but the sting can be soothed by listening back to a really good recording you did where you didn't use the wrong mics just because you had them.
Good luck.:)
 
I would start with One mic, maybe one of the NT 3s (I would experiement all the mics you have) But try to put it in a place where you think it would capture the whole drum set accurately. (sometimes for me this is directly over the kick pedal about 6 feet off the floor, I think that may be like 2 meters...:confused:)Mess around with position and height and the amount of gain your using at your preamp.

Then from there, listen to how it sounds and ask yourself "what's missing?". For example, if the bass drum seems a little weak, throw that 52 out in front of the kick (or inside depends what sound you're going for, Experiment!!) And just keep going on like that until you have a full sounding drum set.

Another thing to consider is where you are placing the drum set in the room. Move em around and see if they sound better in one place compared to another. And try to tune your room a little if you can, just to cut down on the nasty reflections.

Hope this helps, Don't forget to experiment!
-Barrett

Aw shit, I didn't read that post by The Cancers until after I posted my response. But listen to him, he said what I wanted to say but in a much clearer fashion. P.S. I love the capentry analogy, although I have a nail gun in my truck!
 
Those posts by cancers and Bguzaldo in particular but all of them should give you plenty food for thought. If it helps, I've recorded the drums (5 toms, snare, kick, 4 cymbals, hi-hat) in an almost cube kids bedroom with junk everywhere, using 3 mics - one on kick, one on snare and an overhead {dynamic} pointing straight down, about 6 feet off the ground. I loved the sound. I don't use it all the time, I use so many different ways, often depending on who is drumming. A good drummer can be well captured with 2 or 3 mics.
And please take note of what cancers said about using mics simply because you've paid alot of 'major sponzzzzzz' for them. One real mark of whether or not as a home recorder you have self control and focus in my opinion is whether or not you can have items that you don't use for a long while because they're not needed at that moment.......and not get curly toes and sweaty palms !
 
Dunno what to say. You`ve written so much good feedback. :eek:

Thanks a lot you guys. And like grimtraveller said. I`ve got a lot of food for thought. :D

There`s not really much for me to add I guess. It`s a very interessting subject, and fun to practise. And these words should get me in the right direction!

Cheers to a lot of good times with recording music etc!
 
How`s this for starter?

I know I should let someone else do the drumming but atleast you hear some sound.(maybe not the best sound from this perticular kit, as Im not a drummer and don`t know how to hit the different pieces.)

NT3s as overheads, beta52 on kick (a bit inside the kick) and sm94 on snare. (I know the last mic position might suprise you, and I haven`t messured the distance but I believe it is about 5 inches from the snare.)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1090810 (NT3)

PS: When speaking of suprising ways of using mics, this guy uses the NT3s on kick and snare, and he seems pretty good..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJcCxqPPx-8
 
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