How do you stop snare mic picking up lots of hi hat?

[RRuskin]

Has anyone tried recording drums first, then cymbal work and high hat secondly?

Not quite. I've recorded kick & hi-hat 1st and then overdubbed the snare, then the tom-toms and other cymbals. This was when I played the kit. I'd never ask another drummer to work that way.

These days, I'll either use a Fostex M85RP noise-cancelling ribbon mic on the snare which ignores anything coming in that's not on-axis or a Fostex m/s stereo ribbon mic for both snare & hi hat. they both can come straight in from the front of the snare which makes positioning a no-brainer.

 

[moresound]

Yes. It takes a special kind of drummer to be able to do this with any feel. It's a talent over and above being a good drummer.

I'm imagining that it could be difficult, but I was envisioning playing drums like that as the way a guitar is divided into say rhythm tracks and solo tracks.

The drums first ...then accents with the cymbals.

 

[RAMI]

I was envisioning playing drums like that as the way a guitar is divided into say rhythm tracks and solo tracks.

The drums first ...then accents with the cymbals.

I think a closer comparison would be playing your guitar tracks one string at a time.

 

[RAMI]

I'm pretty sure Def Leppard's "Pyromania" (back when the guy still had two arms) was recorded one drum at a time.

So, he never really needed that arm anyway.

 

[miroslav]

Every time I see the title of this thread...I'm waiting for the punch line:

How do you stop snare mic picking up lots of hi hat?

Introduce the snare mic to a better class of percussion.

 

[RAMI]

Every time I see the title of this thread...I'm waiting for the punch line:

How do you stop snare mic picking up lots of hi hat?

Introduce the snare mic to a better class of percussion.

HEE!!!!!!!


(must spread rep)

You would have hit it out of the park if you had highlighted the punch-line, as opposed to the set-up. And then if you hit "percussion" really hard at the end, they'd be rushing the stage for an encore....but that's just me.........

 

[moresound]

Every time I see the title of this thread...I'm waiting for the punch line:

How do you stop snare mic picking up lots of hi hat?

Introduce the snare mic to a better class of percussion.

A snare, a hi hat and a kick drum walk into a bar.........

 

[moresound]

I think a closer comparison would be playing your guitar tracks one string at a time.

No, I was saying record the whole drum kit then the whole cymbal array.
Not every drum and cymbal separately.

 

[Dogbreath]

What about just lowering the gain on the snare mic? Wouldn't that, in effect, lower the hi hat?

 

[Erockrazor]

What about just lowering the gain on the snare mic? Wouldn't that, in effect, lower the hi hat?

While we're at it, why don't we just mute the snare mic.

It seems as if this is an inevitable event in recording (hi hat bleed). I'm gonna go start working on some special technology to eliminate hi hat bleed.

 

[miroslav]

No, I was saying record the whole drum kit then the whole cymbal array.

I've heard of some guys doing that...and once I thought about trying it when I was pissed at how the cymbals were trashing the drum sound...but then I just 1. got the right/better cymbals for recording and 2. moved them to strategic locations in the kit setup...which is one of the things my drummer and I debated about, as he was use to having the cymbals where he plays them on his kit for live gigs...and I had them spread wide to the sides rather then any in the middle.
He's now use to my cymbal positions once he played the kit a few times.

Anyway...
Most drummers hit cymbals WITHIN the context of their drumming.
When you remove the cymbals...they will just keep hitting the drums, unless you can get them to "make believe" hit cymbals...and then add them later in those holes...which can be a PITA.
Yeah...you can leave the cymbals out for him to hit and just cover/mute them...but if you can get them set in balance with the rest of the kit...then it's more natural for the drummer.
AFA leaving out the HHat and then adding it latter...mmmmmmmmm...that might be even tougher, as the HHat is a BIG part of the basic beat on most stuff. Cymbals are just for fills and accents.
I did the same thing with the HHat...got the mic setup to where the HHat is in the mix, but I never mic it directly, and it's never rude.

Any drummers here that have done that...played w/o HHat or cymbals...and then added them later?

 

[Farview]

No, I was saying record the whole drum kit then the whole cymbal array.
Not every drum and cymbal separately.

But the drum set is one instrument, not a collection of separate ones.

 

[Farview]

Any drummers here that have done that...played w/o HHat or cymbals...and then added them later?

Ussually you do it the other way around. You play the hat, then lay down the rest of the drums. Then after that, you add the crash cymbals. It really sucks to do and it's hard to get the feel right. In the best case, it comes off sounding like a drum machine.

There are a lot of things that a drummer will do without thinking that add to the feel of the part. Things like hitting a little hard on the last measure leading up to the chorus, opening the hat a tiny bit more on the downbeat than the rest of the measure, etc... Some of it is an inadvertant side effect of the movement of the rest of his body. All that will go away when he is just hitting the hat for 5 minutes.

 

[moresound]

While we're at it, why don't we just mute the snare mic.

It seems as if this is an inevitable event in recording (hi hat bleed). I'm gonna go start working on some special technology to eliminate hi hat bleed.

I bet this is going to require a time machine!

 

[moresound]

I've heard of some guys doing that...and once I thought about trying it when I was pissed at how the cymbals were trashing the drum sound...but then I just 1. got the right/better cymbals for recording and 2. moved them to strategic locations in the kit setup...which is one of the things my drummer and I debated about, as he was use to having the cymbals where he plays them on his kit for live gigs...and I had them spread wide to the sides rather then any in the middle.
He's now use to my cymbal positions once he played the kit a few times.

Anyway...
Most drummers hit cymbals WITHIN the context of their drumming.
When you remove the cymbals...they will just keep hitting the drums, unless you can get them to "make believe" hit cymbals...and then add them later in those holes...which can be a PITA.
Yeah...you can leave the cymbals out for him to hit and just cover/mute them...but if you can get them set in balance with the rest of the kit...then it's more natural for the drummer.
AFA leaving out the HHat and then adding it latter...mmmmmmmmm...that might be even tougher, as the HHat is a BIG part of the basic beat on most stuff. Cymbals are just for fills and accents.
I did the same thing with the HHat...got the mic setup to where the HHat is in the mix, but I never mic it directly, and it's never rude.

Any drummers here that have done that...played w/o HHat or cymbals...and then added them later?

I think that this is the best approach....setting a drum kit up for recording apposed to setting them up for live....and of course with out saying proper microphone placement.

 

[grimtraveller]

I think a closer comparison would be playing your guitar tracks one string at a time.

I actually tried this once ! I wanted to get this really ringy sustained sound for a chord that was unlike anything I'd heard. So I worked out the individual notes in the chord, hit the individual note with a battery and recorded it over and over on different parts of the fretboard and bounced it to one track. It was wicked !

 

[witzendoz]

It's got a lot to do with the mic positions, I place the top snare mic under the hi hat and the hi hat mic is placed so the hi hat is between the hi hat mic and the snare, see photos below.

It does depend on the drummer, drummer do need to hit different drums and cymbals at the same volume to get a truly even sound.

Spill into other mics is all part of the overall sound, when recording drums if you cannot get a good drum mix when tracking, move the mics around until you do get a good mix, don't think you will be able to fix it later.

p.s: he should have dusted off his cymbals before I took the photo.

Cheers
Alan

 

[tewfus]

As a drummer don't go telling me to move my equipment.

I worked with a drummer that felt the same way and it caused enough problems that one of the engineers ended up using some cardboard, wire (like an unbent hanger), and tape and made some makeshift device to shield the mic from the snare sound.

It looked ridiculous, but he got it to work.

 

[drumslinger]

Being a drummer myself and recording other drummers from time to time can be challenging as like some of you have said that you don't like someone telling you to change your setup. I agree as this pulls the musician out of his comfort zone due to his/her playing style. Depending on how he/she attacks the drumset will reflect on how the mics are set up and in what configuration. Experiment with the mics and their placement whether it's 1,2 or 8 mics but try to keep it simple and save yourself some headache and like one of the guys said....try using a gate but be careful and don't suck the life out of snare.


DS

 

[dastrick]

A gate is your friend. Use it.