Classical Solo Violoncello

[jclark5093]

preface: sorry for the novella of a multi-question thread, and thanks for reading all the way through! (and hopefully responding! even if all you say is shut up and go away ^-^)
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So I'm here because an SM57 gives me hell with placement, and I don't get consistent tone because I sway a bit when I play (I do mostly Bach suites. 5th is my fav to record, but to do multiple takes is hell on the hands!)

some people on a different forum have been telling me to get more 57s... (I'm trying to put together a project studio) but I will never mic amps. I do acoustic only (piano, violin, cello, vocals, classical guitar, string quartets, maybe some woodwinds...)

Anyway, my wife is severely limiting my budget (something along the lines of - do it as cheap as possible, and if it looks like you're serious, then you can "invest"...)

So what I'm looking at as of now is an MXL 550/551 pack, or AT2020/2021 pack, potentially a stereo pair of CAD or Behringer sdcs and of course cables and stands (found the cables 6 pack for 50 on amazon and 6 pack of OnStage tripod booms for 100).

the 550/551 was 85
the 2020/2021 was 115
stereo sdcs can be had for 50 a pair

and I need an interface that will work with my win7 (i know blech, but I can't afford a mac right now. My PC is very high end and self built, though, so I can handle whatever it throws at it)

I don't know if I should go with a Delta 44 and a 4 bus cheapo mixer (i.e. behringer xenyx 1204) which would be 115 for the delta and 130 for the xenyx which puts me at ~250 for the "interface" or would it be worth the jump if I can get a price match on an m-audio fast track ultra for 300? (or a tascam 1641 for 300?)

Also, as much as I would love to build my own ribbon, I don't have the time or patience (2 little kids plus wanting to make music, not mics....). are the cheapo ribbons worth the money? Like the naddy's or the MXL R144? or should I just spend 100 for the MF pack of the MXL V63m with ART tube mp studio with a boom and cable, and use a patch cable to DI to my onboard sound for now? That would be 100 total instead of 500, but would probably sound like a home recording....

I guess I want something that I can do myself and not have people assume off the bat that "oh, this is a home demo". I don't need customers, I want quality that is merited by my own musicianship. That's all.

So bang for buck - throw ideas at me!!!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

If you're the only one recording, I'd start by skipping the cheap double-mic sets and instead investing the total into a single better mic. This will also save you on cables and mic stands, the money which can instead be invested into batter mic and decent interface. See if you can find an MXL V69 or maybe AT 30-series LDC (or even better than those) for what you would otherwise pay for two cheap mics and a bunch of cables and stands. And I might recommend a Tascam 122L over the ART Tube MP for sound of preamp.

Although I will say that if you can find a quality pair of used SDCs for your budget, they would work great on the piano. OTOH, they may not be the best bet for the cello.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Win7 machine for this type of work, despite what the Jobbettes may tell you. All they're needed for is pushing your bits where they're supposed to go and either platform type will do it just as well as the other.

I have no personal experience with the cheapo ribbons, so I can't speak authoritatively about them, but I'd be skeptical. Also, something to watch out for with ribbons is they tend to have very low voltage outputs, and not all inexpensive preamps can provide enough clean boost to get them up to good levels. If you are at all interested in the cheap ribbons, that's something you'd want to double-check before buying.

HTH,

G.

 

[witzendoz]

Hi,

For cello I would use a large condenser mic.

Check out the recordings I produced here, the string sections were recorded with a combination of, on cello a Rode NT1 or NT2 (old) or a AKG c4000b (my favourite) depending on mic availability (we were recording a lot of the band live together) and Sennheiser ME 40's on the violins.

I have also used a MXL V67G or an Audio Technica At 3525 with good results, I find most large condensers work fine, there are differences in the sound but there are differences between different cellos as well. The mic position is very important so experiment.

I know there will be some replies with suggestions like Neumann something or other, but I am working with a budget.

Cheers

Alan.

 

[Ethan Winer]

some people on a different forum have been telling me to get more 57s

I agree with Alan to get a large diaphragm condenser. I did this entire project with just one audiotechnica 4033:

A Cello Rondo

--Ethan

 

[moresound]

I just recently recorded stand up bass with an omni mic for the first time and got unbelievable results after many other recordings using muli mics and positions to achieve the desired final recording ......so try just one omni mic about two feet out and about two feet from floor facing straight up. I have not tried this yet on cello but would give it a shot for what one mic in omni setting did for me with the bass.

 

[jclark5093]

If you're the only one recording, I'd start by skipping the cheap double-mic sets and instead investing the total into a single better mic.

I would, but I got different sets to try them out, not to match them, and as for getting sets, it was like getting free sdcs, not intentionally buying lookalikes. And for all 4 of those mics I got, I spent less than 200, so unless I can get a single LDC that's leaps and bounds better than anything I'm looking at, and would still be able to do piano, vocals (baritone), cello, ukelele, etc, I'll be getting the packs for now.

I'll probably end up with either 2 packs of 2020/2021 or 2 packs of 550/551 (price difference for the 4 mic sets would be 170 for mxl vs 230 for AT, but I'm getting the creeping feeling that the ATs would be worth $60 more...)

I was also looking into a stereo pair of SDCs that have an optional violin mount... maybe he can make a cello mount? Anyone have experience with this guy?

Again, like I said, ACAP (as cheap as possible...) I just hope I don't have to go with discount mics (5 finger, I mean )

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'll probably end up with either 2 packs of 2020/2021 or 2 packs of 550/551 (price difference for the 4 mic sets would be 170 for mxl vs 230 for AT, but I'm getting the creeping feeling that the ATs would be worth $60 more...)

This is subjective opinion only, others are free to disagree, but personally I'd agree with you and go the extra money for the ATs.

I was also looking into a stereo pair of SDCs that have an optional violin mount... maybe he can make a cello mount? Anyone have experience with this guy?

Not only do many of us have positive experience with this guy (his name is Jon), but he is one of the moderators on this BBS. Look up the member name "mshilarious" and you'll be talking directly to him.

The SDCs may work fine for you on the cello - there's only one way for you to find out for sure - but there's a gamble that they might be a bit anemic in the bass frequencies for getting that full, rich cello low end.

G.

 

[BIGSHAQDADDY]

preface: sorry for the novella of a multi-question thread, and thanks for reading all the way through! (and hopefully responding! even if all you say is shut up and go away ^-^)
======================================================
So I'm here because an SM57 gives me hell with placement, and I don't get consistent tone because I sway a bit when I play (I do mostly Bach suites. 5th is my fav to record, but to do multiple takes is hell on the hands!)

some people on a different forum have been telling me to get more 57s... (I'm trying to put together a project studio) but I will never mic amps. I do acoustic only (piano, violin, cello, vocals, classical guitar, string quartets, maybe some woodwinds...)

Anyway, my wife is severely limiting my budget (something along the lines of - do it as cheap as possible, and if it looks like you're serious, then you can "invest"...)

So what I'm looking at as of now is an MXL 550/551 pack, or AT2020/2021 pack, potentially a stereo pair of CAD or Behringer sdcs and of course cables and stands (found the cables 6 pack for 50 on amazon and 6 pack of OnStage tripod booms for 100).

the 550/551 was 85
the 2020/2021 was 115
stereo sdcs can be had for 50 a pair

and I need an interface that will work with my win7 (i know blech, but I can't afford a mac right now. My PC is very high end and self built, though, so I can handle whatever it throws at it)

I don't know if I should go with a Delta 44 and a 4 bus cheapo mixer (i.e. behringer xenyx 1204) which would be 115 for the delta and 130 for the xenyx which puts me at ~250 for the "interface" or would it be worth the jump if I can get a price match on an m-audio fast track ultra for 300? (or a tascam 1641 for 300?)

Also, as much as I would love to build my own ribbon, I don't have the time or patience (2 little kids plus wanting to make music, not mics....). are the cheapo ribbons worth the money? Like the naddy's or the MXL R144? or should I just spend 100 for the MF pack of the MXL V63m with ART tube mp studio with a boom and cable, and use a patch cable to DI to my onboard sound for now? That would be 100 total instead of 500, but would probably sound like a home recording....

I guess I want something that I can do myself and not have people assume off the bat that "oh, this is a home demo". I don't need customers, I want quality that is merited by my own musicianship. That's all.

So bang for buck - throw ideas at me!!!

Heres my advice, tell your wife you are building a danm studio and she can hit the road if she does not like cause you play cello and shit and that will get you laid anytime anywhere.

 

[bozmillar]

As someone in the same boat as you (wife, small kids, don't want to spend money on anything, etc), I would probably go with a cheap pair of SDCs. Your wife has the right idea, it's not an investment unless you make your money back with it. People often misuse the work investment to mean "expensive stuff I want."

For cello, you probably won't need more than 1 mic, but if record piano, you'll probably want at least 2, and a 57 isn't going to give you the sound you want for either of those.

A cheap pair of mics won't sound quite as good as a nice mic, but as your wife said, try on that first and see how it goes. I think you'll be surprised about how much sound you can get from a cheap sdc. Once you figure out how to use it, then you can start to think about what mic you really need and you can make a more educated purchase.