solid vs tubes in metal

[marioantigod]

I normally only do 2 tracks and pan them hard left and right.

i think panning hard to each side looses that sweet point where u can here instrument coming from kinda virtual center, not from each speaker.
that is a pro rule. the better the virtual center the more pleasant listening experience. ....and u do opposite. and u even make center track quieter.
as pro mixers say, panning of the important instruments cant be done very hard, far from center.
i just hope that u know what u r doing.

thanks mate

 

[miroslav]

i think panning hard to each side looses that sweet point where u can here instrument coming from kinda virtual center, not from each speaker.
that is a pro rule. the better the virtual center the more pleasant listening experience. ....and u do opposite. and u even make center track quieter.
as pro mixers say, panning of the important instruments cant be done very hard, far from center.
i just hope that u know what u r doing.

Glen.....GLEN!

He's all yours!

 

[Farview]

i think panning hard to each side looses that sweet point where u can here instrument coming from kinda virtual center, not from each speaker.
that is a pro rule. the better the virtual center the more pleasant listening experience. ....and u do opposite. and u even make center track quieter.
as pro mixers say, panning of the important instruments cant be done very hard, far from center.
i just hope that u know what u r doing.

thanks mate

The guitars are only one thing in a mix. Panning the guitars out will leave room for the bass, kick, snare and vocals to sit in the center.

I do know what I'm doing. I've been doing this professionally for over 20 years and 90% of the work I do is metal. I'm very familiar with the process.

 

[marioantigod]

The guitars are only one thing in a mix. Panning the guitars out will leave room for the bass, kick, snare and vocals to sit in the center.

i will definitely try your way. thanks very much.

 

[marioantigod]

.................................................................

 

[Farview]

I visited your myspace. I know that that stuff isn't metal, but the distorted guitars sound like they are a mile away. If you take off all the effects and play it again (meaning play it twice with just the distortion) and pan them hard left and right, you will be able to get them up in your face more. It will sound stronger.

 

[marioantigod]

I visited your myspace. I know that that stuff isn't metal, but the distorted guitars sound like they are a mile away. If you take off all the effects and play it again (meaning play it twice with just the distortion) and pan them hard left and right, you will be able to get them up in your face more. It will sound stronger.

thank u for your time. these records are just my attempts to arrange my songs. it is not what i want to play. i did that mud with 12 str acoustic and mac's built in mic and simulation effects. now i want to gather more info and record more stuff with my new gear.
i hope that your ears are not damaged after my myspace
thanks mate

 

[marioantigod]

I visited your myspace. I know that that stuff isn't metal, but the distorted guitars sound like they are a mile away. If you take off all the effects and play it again (meaning play it twice with just the distortion) and pan them hard left and right, you will be able to get them up in your face more. It will sound stronger.

dear pro,
could u give me good online resources that u feel are good after your 20 y of recording. about guitar, band, vocals recording at home and in the studio.
from very good pro basics to more advanced.
and similar stuff.
share with us your experience. dont take it to your grave.
and later we could discuss about those things in much clearer fashion.

i read useful stuff here:
http://www.amptone.com/index.html
http://www.geofex.com/
http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html
http://mars.prosoundweb.com/

thanks bro

 

[Farview]

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

 

[marioantigod]

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

thanks, white dogy with the newspaper
many sleepless nights of reading r waiting for me
cheers

 

[philbagg]

I just want to nip this in the bud.

how can i lay down parallel tracks. it requires to play identical tracks, very tight and in pocket. cause if i play each time differently, i will get a big peace of "mud variations", kinda out of phase sound.
isn't it?

You can overdub a track as many times as you like and get them as close as
possible, performance-wise. Even if you use the same gear, same tone etc. it
will never be out of phase because it is still a different recording. The only time
it will be out of phase is if you use 2 or more mics on the same recording and
they are not phase-coherent, or you double the track during mixdown and
somehow put them out of timing by milliseconds.

 

[marioantigod]

You can overdub a track as many times as you like and get them as close as
possible, performance-wise. Even if you use the same gear, same tone etc. it
will never be out of phase because it is still a different recording.

ye. it is logical. if i would want to have identical tracks i could duplicate one existing track and use it for L and R and center. it does not make sence. its the same track everywhere.

so how different, and where different the tracks should be?

if i'll record 3 very different tracks, then it will sound as a 3 different guitars/parts. a fuckin football team of guitars and it is too much. right?

so, i think these tracks should be recorded quite identical and these slight tiny variations in picking or dynamics of each attempt is what matters here. right?

im glad that u pointed this question.
thanks.

 

[philbagg]

ye. it is logical. if i would want to have identical tracks i could duplicate one existing track and use it for L and R and center. it does not make sence. its the same track everywhere.
thanks.

First of all, if you're looking for that overdubbed guitar sound, NEVER just
duplicate the track. All that's really doing is making it louder by about 3dB.

if i'll record 3 very different tracks, then it will sound as a 3 different guitars/parts. a fuckin football team of guitars and it is too much. right?

I'm not saying you should change the guitar part at all. When I talk about
"differences", I'm talking about the very minor timing differences in picking,
the speaker moving slightly differently, and so many other things. The only
time phase really comes into play when recording is if you have multiple
recordings of THE SAME SIGNAL. If you do the same guitar part multiple times,
it will never be the same signal. Do you understand this?

In other words, you don't have to change the part, just play it the same way
numerous times to layer the sound. Phase will not be an issue, trust me.

so, i think these tracks should be recorded quite identical and these slight tiny variations in picking or dynamics of each attempt is what matters here. right?

That's it.

 

[Farview]

if i'll record 3 very different tracks, then it will sound as a 3 different guitars/parts. a fuckin football team of guitars and it is too much. right?

Wrong. If you have ever heard the Metallica Black album, you were hearing two performances panned hard left and right and sometimes one up the middle.
Pantera's Cowboys from Hell was the same thing. Three performances-left, right and center.

Dimmu Borgir, two performances panned hard left and right.

Do I need to go on?

 

[marioantigod]

i think im completely in a wrong understanding of what that overdubbing, multitracking of the guitars is.

if a band has two guitarists, then the rhythm parts will have at least two tracks ALREADY there. one from each guitar. right?

and if one guitar starts soloing (solos dont need that overdubbing, right?) , another keeps chugging the rhythm. so, do u mean that that rhythm guitar alone can have 3 panned tracks to make itself thicker?
if so,
then what is going on when solo guitar comes back to rhythm part and plays with another rhythm guitar again? do we have to make a 6 tracks (3 panned tracks for each guitar)? or we have to add just one additional track to two already existing tracks? or one additional track to each guitar? i dont get it.

in pantera's case, there was only one dimebag. so doubling his guitar in rhythm parts makes a big sense. and tripling it - more flavor and thickness.

but what about 2 guitars band? six tracks?

could u please explain in a clear sequence what overdubbing goes after what during the song: rhythm part, solo part??

please take me out of these delusions. thanks.

 

[miroslav]

could u please explain in a clear sequence what goes after what during the song: rhythm part, solo part??

Your biggest problem with any type of questions you ask, whether it be the number of guitar tracks to use or how to record loud guitars or how to improvising as you play...
...is that you keep looking for formulas...for exact steps...as though everything can be solved with some mathematical equation or some “by-the-numbers” process that you can then apply in any situation.
It doesn’t work like that.

You need to stop looking for "exact solutions" and just go play, like rami told you.

EXPERIMENT...don't just read and talk about it.

Let your ears lead you to the answers.

And above all...PRACTICE!

Or you can go to Tibet and seek your answers there...

 

[marioantigod]

...is that you keep looking for formulas...for exact steps...as though everything can be solved with some mathematical equation or some “by-the-numbers” process that you can then apply in any situation.
It doesn’t work like that.

i think u r very wrong here.
before u go breaking the rules, you have to know the rules first.
and if u want to experiment, use your baggage of rules first, then break them if needed using your wonderful mind.
i dont need tibet to understand things like that. it is a thing from experienced people.

and, i would never reach the level in my profession (it is not related to music) if i wouldn't know exact rules of that profession.
i am a leader of a team cause i know more rules than anybody else. i read a book after book, site after site to get more rules.
get it, bro?

me as a hobbyist musician i gathered a lot of good knowledge here and elsewhere.
i know more common rules and it saves my worthless days of inventing a bike.
bike is already invented.

thanks.

 

[philbagg]

then what is going on when solo guitar comes back to rhythm part and plays with another rhythm guitar again? do we have to make a 6 tracks (3 panned tracks for each guitar)? or we have to add just one additional track to two already existing tracks? or one additional track to each guitar? i dont get it.

Not necessarily.

The way I do it is:
Worry about all my rhythm tracks first. Overdubbing, layering, etc. etc. DONE
THEN, start adding the lead stuff. Solos etc. Once I'm finished recording the solo
on this take, I press stop. The lead guitar doesn't play anything after the solo
is over.

So, there's my 2 or 3 rhythm guitar tracks, and then my lead.
You'll find that there's few rock/metal bands that do it any other way these days.

Oh, and as for doubling your lead guitar... It is not as much of a necessity
to double your lead guitar tracks, very few guitarists do it these days.
Although, some guitarists (Zakk Wylde is one example), do. They play the solo
once, pan it left. They play it the same way again, pan it right. It can sound huge,
and as mentioned before, its those little differences in picking and
dynamics that give it that double-tracked feel. Although if you're close enough
(like Zakk), you won't really notice that it's double tracked unless you really
pay attention to it.

before u go breaking the rules, you have to know the rules first.
and if u want to experiment, use your baggage of rules first, then break them if needed using your wonderful mind.

Yes. There are rules. But there are really no rules to apply to what you're asking.
You will learn so much more from just putting a mic in front of your amp and
trying these things out, as opposed to asking us how it will sound. You seem
to have a fairly good idea. Just try it all.

The only rule you should keep in mind is:
If it sounds bad, then it's wrong
If it sounds good, then it's right

Good luck.

 

[Farview]

there really are no 'rules'. I'm just telling you what tends to be done.

With Metallica, James plays all three rhythm parts and Kirk just overdubs the solo. (most of the time, on the black album)

In other bands, one guy plays on rhythm part, the other guy plays the other rhythm part through the whole song. If there is a third part, who ever plays that live will play it. There are an infinite amount of variations on this theme. Sometimes there are more guitar parts on the album than are played live, and those get layered in however they have to in order to get the texture that they are trying to create.

Solos are almost always overdubbed.

 

[miroslav]

get it, bro?

I'm not the one asking the questions.

...and if one guitar starts soloing (solos dont need that overdubbing, right?) , another keeps chugging the rhythm. so, do u mean that that rhythm guitar alone can have 3 panned tracks to make itself thicker?
if so,
then what is going on when solo guitar comes back to rhythm part and plays with another rhythm guitar again? do we have to make a 6 tracks (3 panned tracks for each guitar)? or we have to add just one additional track to two already existing tracks? or one additional track to each guitar? i dont get it.

in pantera's case, there was only one dimebag. so doubling his guitar in rhythm parts makes a big sense. and tripling it - more flavor and thickness.

but what about 2 guitars band? six tracks?

could u please explain in a clear sequence what overdubbing goes after what during the song: rhythm part, solo part??

You're not asking about *rules*...you're asking for steps (sequence)...and you've done that in almost every thread/post topic you've made. 3 tracks…6 tracks……….20 tracks…..those are not rules, those are production decisions that YOU make.
Learning by asking questions is fine...but I'm saying...GO EXPERIMENT...GO PRACTICE.
Do you want to know the difference between solid state and tube amps...GO PLAY THEM.

Only so much can be *learned* by just asking the questions without experiencing. Don’t spend all your time reading and asking questions. We are talking about AUDIO...and the best way to learn about audio is to LISTEN.