solid vs tubes in metal

[Farview]

i listened to your lacuna guitars. one is just naked amp sound, another is just eq'ed mix.

If the sound coming out of the amp in the room sounds like the EQ'd mix sound (CD sound), that's bad. if it sounds more like the naked amp sound (raw), that's good.

and if im not satisfied with the sound after the mic, i adjust distortion amount, frequencies, mic position or the way of playing.

is this all i can do?

Yes, that is all you can do. There is no magic trick. You just have to adjust the things you can to get the sound you want.

The big problem people run into is wanting to get a sound that they can't get from their equipment. If you want the sound of a les paul through a Marshall and you are playing a strat through a Crate, it's not going to sound right to you no matter what you do.

 

[Farview]

where can i hear that difference clearly?
thank u boyz.

Go to a music store that will let you play a couple of tube amps. Look for Marshall, Mesa Boogie, ENGL, etc... Fander makes tube amps, but they really don't work for metal.'


What type of sound are you looking for? If you give some examples, we could probably tell you exactly how to get the sound.

 

[Sonixx]

could u please explain and maybe with examples, what is the difference between solid state and tube amp when playing heaviest metal music. does still tubes make a big advantage when hurricane distortions are used? how to get closer to it if solid state amp is used. which solid amps are better, lively and musically sounding, just as a quick reference to compare.

you're asking which is better, Tubes or Solid State. the answer is it depends. only you and the artist can answer this.

also we r talking here about how to record heavy guitar so the desired signature sound can be achieved after mics.

if you have a sample of what you're after, you can use SW like the Voxengo's CurveEQ to nudge it post tracking. it's no panacea though. if your tracked gtr has similar textures to the tone you're after it can be pretty convincing.

also, I do not adhere to the less is more gain thing. that's a work around for me. necessarily dialing gain down will change the tone's texture, character and feel. IMO, if your tone is awesome, it can be captured. There is tonal context that must be achieved though.

 

[marioantigod]

There is tonal context that must be achieved though.

what do u mean? if i dialed an awesome tone on my amp, what else should i consider? shouldn't i just record it? and later mix everything to fit to that guitar?

thanks

 

[marioantigod]

If the sound coming out of the amp in the room sounds like the EQ'd mix sound (CD sound), that's bad. if it sounds more like the naked amp sound (raw), that's good.

i kinda understand your point, it is like a good rule for traditional heavy guitar capturing and mixing. and it is good. but still its hard for me to understand how just an amp can be made into something cd sounding if u dont use 99 effects pedals before the mic.

and, still, if u use something to make your sound like cd, isn't it good if it is your goal?

u record that cd sound and then make more perversions, cannibalisms and sex with them? maybe that way someone will deliver a new metal style, in ex: "doom-vinnie-the-pooh-sex-metal" style. isn't it the matter of taste of sound and mix?

thanks

 

[Farview]

but still its hard for me to understand how just an amp can be made into something cd sounding if u dont use 99 effects pedals before the mic.

In my experience, most rhythm guitar tracks don't have a lot of effects on them. It's just the distortion of the amp with a cabinet miced up. The guitar player plays the part two or three times. Those performances are panned left, right and center to give a stereo spread. And during mixing they are EQ'd and compressed.

Most guys don't have 99 pedals for the distorted rhythm tone and there isn't a lot of effects in the mix either.

Who do you want to sound like?

 

[Farview]

also, I do not adhere to the less is more gain thing. that's a work around for me. necessarily dialing gain down will change the tone's texture, character and feel. IMO, if your tone is awesome, it can be captured. There is tonal context that must be achieved though.

I think this gets thrown around a lot because of the amount of people that just have mushy, undefined tones because they think everything needs to be on '10'. Some amps can be cranked to the moon without losing the note articulation, some can't. Sometimes a fuzzy non-distinct sound is appropriate, sometimes it's not.

 

[marioantigod]

Who do you want to sound like?

there is no such sound. i cant tell u sorry. i have semi tube laney and dean guitar.
i try to develop my sound with what i got. i cant afford other gear just because others use it.
if i tell u "entombed", i know they use gibsons with boss hm2 to max, and so on.
thanks.

 

[marioantigod]

The guitar player plays the part two or three times. Those performances are panned left, right and center to give a stereo spread. [/U][/B]

what is this?? please explain in detail this and similar methods. u record 3 mono tracks and use them to artificially create stereo?? those 3 tracks still have a minimum variations cause they are 3 different attempts?

could u please explain what is - laying more guitar tracks when recording.
guys say, lay down more then 1 track of guitar. and i hear that very often.
is this for thicker sound, mixing parts of the best sounding or blending them together for the new sound, tone?
how can i lay down parallel tracks. it requires to play identical tracks, very tight and in pocket. cause if i play each time differently, i will get a big peace of "mud variations", kinda out of phase sound.
isn't it?

so, what it really is?

thanks very much man

 

[Sonixx]

what do u mean? if i dialed an awesome tone on my amp, what else should i consider? shouldn't i just record it? and later mix everything to fit to that guitar?

thanks

You'll have to answer all those questions. If you decide to center a song around your awesome tone, cool.

I'm just saying the gtr tone has a context with the rest.

 

[Farview]

there is no such sound. i cant tell u sorry. i have semi tube laney and dean guitar.
i try to develop my sound with what i got. i cant afford other gear just because others use it.
if i tell u "entombed", i know they use gibsons with boss hm2 to max, and so on.
thanks.

I get that, but at least it will give us an idea of what type of distortion you are looking for.

The original question was about tubes vs solid state, the sound you are trying to get will determine if tubes are necessary or not. Not all distortion is the same, not all tube amps make the same distortion and not all solid state amps make the same distortion.

"Extreme metal" is too broad of a catagory.

 

[Farview]

double post

 

[Sonixx]

I think this gets thrown around a lot because of the amount of people that just have mushy, undefined tones because they think everything needs to be on '10'. Some amps can be cranked to the moon without losing the note articulation, some can't. Sometimes a fuzzy non-distinct sound is appropriate, sometimes it's not.

yeah, but sometimes it's tossed about as some sort of universal truth.

 

[marioantigod]

guys please help me with the question on post#29 about multiple tracks.
big thanks

 

[marioantigod]

I get that, but at least it will give us an idea of what type of distortion you are looking for.
"Extreme metal" is too broad of a catagory.

ye it is a broad question. but its quite easy if u know what gear your hero uses. isn't it? buy that gear and u will be close. details are sometimes too difficult and dont worth to be inspected. or secret. if marshall has to be used, u dont buy fender. simple as that.

thanks

 

[Farview]

what is this?? please explain in detail this and similar methods. u record 3 mono tracks and use them to artificially create stereo?? those 3 tracks still have a minimum variations cause they are 3 different attempts?

Those minimum variations are what makes it sound big. It's never one guitar track with a bunch of effects on it.

If you can't double yourself well enough to do this, you need to practice playing and not worry so much about recording.

 

[mixsit]

also, I do not adhere to the less is more gain thing. that's a work around for me. necessarily dialing gain down will change the tone's texture, character and feel. IMO, if your tone is awesome, it can be captured. There is tonal context that must be achieved though.

Player comes in with killer awesome tone. Context is applied.. Oops.
Tone and style are adjusted.. typically which way?

Universal'.. (ok, one hell of a trend ) happens.

 

[Sonixx]

Player comes in with killer awesome tone. Context is applied.. Oops.
Tone and style are adjusted.. typically which way?

Universal'.. (ok, one hell of a trend ) happens.

but that's not what I'm talking about.

I can come up with another scenario... player comes in with awesome, thick-n-chewy hi-gain tone and engineer is clueless about tracking hi-gain tones and requires the player to turn the gain down because it will make it thicker.

 

[marioantigod]

Those minimum variations are what makes it sound big. It's never one guitar track with a bunch of effects on it.
If you can't double yourself well enough to do this, you need to practice playing and not worry so much about recording.

so u keep those 3 tracks as separate tracks and pan one more to the R, one more to the L, and one u leave at the center? do u diminish L and R tracks to keep center track dominating?
all other things like effects etc. are applied to all 3 tracks equally? or u do any variations here also, and it depends on the taste?

usually 3 tracks for rhythm guitar?
leads dont need such things, cause it could create kinda chorus effect.

thanks bro

 

[Farview]

so u keep those 3 tracks as separate tracks and pan one more to the R, one more to the L, and one u leave at the center? do u diminish L and R tracks to keep center track dominating?
all other things like effects etc. are applied to all 3 tracks equally? or u do any variations here also, and it depends on the taste?

usually 3 tracks for rhythm guitar?
leads dont need such things, cause it could create kinda chorus effect.

thanks bro

I normally only do 2 tracks and pan them hard left and right. If I do 3 tracks it will be hard left, hard right and center. The center one is a little quieter than the other two. You can put effects on one, two, or all of them. That is a mix question and completely a matter of taste and what you are trying to accomplish.