Acoustic Guitar Recording

[starman65]

Hi,
I'm looking to get into recording acoustic guitar tracks at home. I'm wanting advice on buying an audio interface for my recording set-up. I've looked at some conderser mikes and have a few to select but first I want to find the right audio interface for me. I have been recommended Prosonus since they're the easiest and most affordable for use and more suited to my needs. All I want is a simple basic set-up (one or two inputs, good quality, pre-amp etc and easy to sue). Advice and suggestions greatly appreciated. Also do audio interfaces come with accompanying recording software?

 

[mjbphotos]

You're going to sue the interface company because you don't like the sound?! Presonus are good. There are a ton of threads on these forums about preamps/interfaces and how to mic your guitar - suggest you look around. Most interfaces come with software.

 

[starman65]

Sorry that was suppose to read, "use" not "sue"!

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Starman! Welcome to the board. First, you want 2 channels, not one, because there are so many stereo options that you lose with only one channel. Also make sure the interface offers phantom power for 2 mics, so you can use condensers. Dynamics, which is what you have to use if you don't have phantom power, are usually not ideal for acoustic instruments. Some interfaces come with software, some don't. You can use Audacity, which is free. A lot of people swear by Reaper, which is $50 or so. If possible, I recommend spending a little more money (if you can). For a plain 2 channel interface, I would recommend one of these 2:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=40819&Category=Audio_Interfaces

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=60669&Category=Audio_Interfaces

But personally, I believe that his is the most versatile option:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=32943&Category=Recorders

Why the H4n? First, it comes with Cubase software. Second, it already has a stereo pair of condenser mics, in addition to allowing you to plug in any 2 mics you want. Third, you can pick it up, walk away with it, and record anything anywhere, as a self contained unit. You can download its files to your computer by USB, or you can use it as a USB powered interface, and record directly to the computer into Cubase, or any software you want. So it is a completely self contained recording system, and it's a USB powered interface. Considering all of its capabilities, it is well worth the extra $100. Just a word of warning- Its predecessor, the H4, is $100 cheaper, and claims to do all the same stuff, but has a number of problems that prevent me from recommending it. Aside from being flimsy and unreliable, there is a fundamental gain staging problem that makes it very prone to unwanted distortion. The H4n corrected all the major problems of the H4. I've been using mine for months now without a hitch.

There are 2 other major points that make me recommend this unit. First, it gets you started recording immediately, and the only other gear you need to get started is a pair of headphones. Second, after you have upgraded to more professional gear, it will still be useful, as a notepad for a recording artist, a headphone amp for a guitar, and as a remote recorder. It will fit in most guitar cases, and runs on batteries, AC, or USB power. I have not regretted buying it at any point in time. Good luck-Richie

PS- note that the H4n comes with a 1 gig card, which is enough to get started, and is irrelevent if you are recording straight to a computer. However, it supports up to 32 gig cards, and you will want a better card down the road. 32 gigs allows 11 hours of recording in stereo at 24bit/96kHz, which is more than I am likely to ever need. In low resolution MP3- it can record over 100 hours, for lectures or whatever. I found a 32 gig card on ebay for $25, and never looked back.

 

[melahide]

Howdie,

I use the Audio Interface from EMU - I am happy with that one. It provides a good quality as long as the Laptop is not pluged in ... it also depends on which mic you are using. There are some really good one which are recording everything that´s goin on. You should never plug the Guitar in the AI because this will sound horrible.

EMU is really easy to use and a recording software, in this case Cubase Light Edition, is included. I am not sure if you need a pre-amp on this one, it depends on the microphone that you are using...

I like EMU, good quality
Martin

 

[starman65]

Thanks for the advice and recommendations so so far. A couple more questions.

Has anybody heard of this audio interface: Lexicon Lambda?

Also with the M-Audio and similar, are you able to plugged the guitar (whether eletric or acoustic) straight into input and record? Or is the suggested method better to use a proper mic (especially for acoustic guitar) for recording?

And lastly, I use a desktop P4 2260 Mhz, so should I stick to standard 24-bit/96kHz audio interface?

Thanks again.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Thanks for the advice and recommendations so so far. A couple more questions.

Has anybody heard of this audio interface: Lexicon Lambda?

Also with the M-Audio and similar, are you able to plugged the guitar (whether eletric or acoustic) straight into input and record? Or is the suggested method better to use a proper mic (especially for acoustic guitar) for recording?

And lastly, I use a desktop P4 2260 Mhz, so should I stick to standard 24-bit/96kHz audio interface?

Thanks again.

OK- Yes, I have heard of Lexicon Lamda. In it's pricerange, it is a perfectly acceptable interface. I prefer the preamps in the fast track or the UX2. That doesn't mean that the Lamda is a bad unit.

Next, yes you can plug a guitar directly into an instrument input only, also known as a "high-z" or high impedence input, which is not the same as line level, or mic level. All of the interfaces discussed so far have at least one high-z input. That's the good news. Now the bad news. Not all, but a large majority of recording engineers will recommend *not* recording guitars direct. They will recommend using *microphones*. This goes for acoustic and electric guitars. If you are going to record guitars direct, an amp modeler, such as a POD, Behringer VAMP II, or VOX tonelab is a big help. One of the advantages of the Line 6 UX2 and the Zoom H4n is that they contain modeling software. That is one area where the UX2 beats the H4n, it has better modeling software, including models of specific mic preamps. While that will *not* make it the equivalent of a top professional preamp, it does give you a greater choice of sounds. I consider amp modeling for guitars to be something to use if for some reason you *can't* use a microphone. In the case of acoustic, I want 2 or 3 microphones.

Lastly, what bit depth and resolution you use is mostly not a function of your desktop, it's a function of your software, your interface, and what format the music needs to end up in. It would be more fair to say that "standard" is 16bit/44.1kHz, which is the same as a CD. If you want your music to end up on a CD, you either have to record at 16/44.1 in the first place, or record at a higher bit depth and resolution, and then dumb it down through a digital process called "dithering". Of course, the music can be further dumbed down to MP3, which comes in more or less compressed versions. That's one of the things I like about the H4n. it can record in almost anything from 24bit/96kHz down to 128kb/sec MP3 (real dumb), and can convert WAV. files to MP3 on its own, at several different compression levels. It also contains a pretty good bank of FX (effects) including compression, delay, reverb, etc. The UX2 also has quite a bit of available FX. The Lexicon gives you reverb only, and it's not built in, although they do provide the software. Hope that helps-Richie

 

[starman65]

Thanks Richard, excuse my ignorance but does that mean then that 24bit/96kHz is better quality than CD standard if its 16bit/44.1kHz?

 

[moresound]

Why the H4n? First, it comes with Cubase software. Second, it already has a stereo pair of condenser mics, in addition to allowing you to plug in any 2 mics you want. Third, you can pick it up, walk away with it, and record anything anywhere, as a self contained unit. You can download its files to your computer by USB, or you can use it as a USB powered interface, and record directly to the computer into Cubase, or any software you want. So it is a completely self contained recording system, and it's a USB powered interface. Considering all of its capabilities, it is well worth the extra $100. Just a word of warning- Its predecessor, the H4, is $100 cheaper, and claims to do all the same stuff, but has a number of problems that prevent me from recommending it. Aside from being flimsy and unreliable, there is a fundamental gain staging problem that makes it very prone to unwanted distortion. The H4n corrected all the major problems of the H4. I've been using mine for months now without a hitch.

There are 2 other major points that make me recommend this unit. First, it gets you started recording immediately, and the only other gear you need to get started is a pair of headphones. Second, after you have upgraded to more professional gear, it will still be useful, as a notepad for a recording artist, a headphone amp for a guitar, and as a remote recorder. It will fit in most guitar cases, and runs on batteries, AC, or USB power. I have not regretted buying it at any point in time. Good luck-Richie

PS- note that the H4n comes with a 1 gig card, which is enough to get started, and is irrelevent if you are recording straight to a computer. However, it supports up to 32 gig cards, and you will want a better card down the road. 32 gigs allows 11 hours of recording in stereo at 24bit/96kHz, which is more than I am likely to ever need. In low resolution MP3- it can record over 100 hours, for lectures or whatever. I found a 32 gig card on ebay for $25, and never looked back.

Every bit the truth Richard We have one here and I don't ever want to carry out side of the studio again a lap top/interface/mics etc around anymore to do location recordings I don't know what I'd do with out it.
So Starman65 take his advice you won't regret it for this is a great piece.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Is 24bit/96kHz "better"? Only if you think it sounds better. More data is not a guarantee of better sound. The only guarantee is that it will be a bigger computer file. I recorded an entire album in 16bit/44.1kHz. If I had done it in 24bit/48kHz (96 wasn't available to me at that time), it just would have meant taking out what I put in to bring it back down to a CD, which is where the music was always intended to end up. More data doesn't always mean better sound, and more pixels doesn't always mean a better photograph. But that said, higher bit depth and higher resolution usually means more accurate. If you are recording Pablo Casals on a $400,000 cello in a perfect room with $5000 mics, it may be worth its weight in gold, if you have ears good enough to hear it. If you are recording Gwen Stefani with a hangover, and a distorted guitar with an SM57, all that detail could just be an annoyance.

There's a reason why they airbrush pictures of centerfolds. Not all detail is a good thing. There is this, though- You can dither a recording down to a lower bit depth and resolution, but you can't dither it *up*. You can't put in what isn't there. I record a lot of acoustic and classical music, so I usually use a pretty high resolution. For live recordings, I usually go straight to 16/44.1, even when I have higher bit depth and resolution available. Many people can't hear the difference, and more than a few will prefer a lot of stuff at 16/44.1. If you listen to music on CD's, that's the world you live in.

And moresound- the one thing I do for more serious remote recordings is plug better mics into the H4n. It absolutely rocks with a pair of AKG C2000B's, which are cheap enough to travel. They are a noticeable improvement over the onboard mics.-Richie

 

[moresound]

Is 24bit/96kHz "better"?



And moresound- the one thing I do for more serious remote recordings is plug better mics into the H4n. It absolutely rocks with a pair of AKG C2000B's, which are cheap enough to travel. They are a noticeable improvement over the onboard mics.-Richie

Oh ya don't I know it at the studio we have many mics to choose from. My associate prefers to use a pair of SM81s for the pads and roll offs. But I would love to see a lot more experimentation of different mics. thanks for that suggestion I try it out next.

We also have a huge PA company that provides sound reinforcement for a lot of high profile acts and what we do there is to take two aux sends off the FOH console into those plugs along with the two on board mics then go back to the studio pop that into pro tools doctor it up a bit and ta-da not a bad sounding live recording. Have you had a chance to try that?

I have also heard different thoughts as to what brand the on board mics are I say Samson would I be right?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yeah, I've tried that, moresound, and I generally come back to an honest stereo recording with the 2 mics where I want them. If it's an indoor performance, and I don't have to deal with weather, drunks, etc., I use a pair of KM184's. But for the rigors of real field recording, the C2000's are ideal, and a good deal more expendable. Using external mics also prevents handling noise. I don't usually go through the board, because so much of my recording is classical ensembles, there *is* no board, or any other mics at all. When there is, I like to take a pair of RCA tape outs from the board (-10) and using a Y-adaptor, I send them to the mini-jack on the bottom of the H4n for a stereo mic, which disables the onboard mics, and the 2 C2000's go to the main mic inputs. That way, I can take the mix off the board, and use my own mics as well, all with no handling noise.-Richie

As far as who makes the onboard mics-no clue.

 

[moresound]

If by chance you have to use the on board mics in a outside situation and expecting wind BSW sells the rycote mini windjammer that works very well, much better than the provided one. That's one thing I did notice is that if your experiencing the slightest amount of wind and recording with the on board mics even with the provided wind screen could ruin the recording.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Well, we should take this to the PM level or start a new thread, as I don't want to hijack the original poster's thread. He wants to know about interfaces. Regarding that, I stand by my opinion that the H4n is the best 2 channel interface out there, because it does *so much more* than be an interface. If you just want an interface for recording guitars, by the Line 6 UX2 and never look back.-Richie

 

[moresound]

OK and thanks for the additional info on the H4n I'm sure starman65 will benefit with our banter for I'm sure by now he'll most likely get one. Heck with all this talk about it I'm going out and purchasing an other one

 

[tdukex]

I am not familiar with the H4n, but if Ritchie recommends it, I believe it will perform exactly as he says it will. However, that is not the direction I would go.

I still feel PCI cards offer the best price/quality ratio for AD/DA interfaces. I would choose either the M-Audio Delta 44 or the EMU 1212M (each around $150). The Delta has two more inputs while the EMU has slightly better converters IMO.

Preamps for recording acoustic guitars, I still recommend the M-Audio DMP3 ($160). It is clean and transparent but not sterile, and it has held it's own against more expensive preamps in several Internet shootouts over the years. I have personally compared it to cheap preamps (Behringer, which it killed), and to more expensive preamps (Meek VC1Qcs and Sebatron vmp 2000). It beat the Meek for this application, and I still choose the DMP3 over the $1,300 Seb on many solo acou guit pieces.

So there are different ways to go about this, none of them necessarily better, just different depending on your goals and preferences. For me it's PCI AD/DA and a dedicated, great bang-for-the-buck preamp.