Dithering?

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ClapHands

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Would you use dithering on your recording if it's already in 16 bit? I have a 16-bit Fostex that I record with, and I was just wondering if that's a good idea or not.
 
Dithering is used (or not, it's a choice not an absolute) during bit rate conversion...like when going from 24 to 16.

You are already there...so no need to dither.
 
miroslav said:
Dithering is used (or not, it's a choice not an absolute) during bit rate conversion...like when going from 24 to 16.

You are already there...so no need to dither.
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Yeah, what he said ^

:)

G.
 
Well, the bit depth may be 16 bits when you record, but all the processing is taking place at a higher bit depth, so dithering actually would be appropriate here. But then again, the best way to know whether or not you should dither is to take a listen to it dithered and not dithered. If you can't hear the difference, then it doesn't matter whether you dither or not.
 
boz is right.

Dither is a strange and mysterious thing. I recommend not only listening to it with and without, but also experimenting with different dithers. You'll find some are pleasant and some make you want to tear your ears off. If you can hear a noticeable difference, don't fret. Your music will play on other people's systems with or with out it.
 
The only time I ever dither is when it doesn't require more than one mouse click. It's so subtle to me that I just don't care whether it's on or off. I think if I did a blind test, I'd guess right about half the time unless I was using a scope to check it. There are so many effects and techniques that have a huge impact on the sound and for me, dither is not one of them, so I don't worry about it.
 
bozmillar said:
but all the processing is taking place at a higher bit depth, so dithering actually would be appropriate here.
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If the processing is using increased bits to work with would dither already be a part of the plug or whatever.
It seems like adding dither after the fact would be too late and any artifacts would have already happened.
IMO if dither is not a part of the process to step down the bit rate and hand off the audio back to the host DAW from the plugin then adding it as a separate process is not going to help
 
Bristol Posse said:
If the processing is using increased bits to work with would dither already be a part of the plug or whatever.
It seems like adding dither after the fact would be too late and any artifacts would have already happened.
IMO if dither is not a part of the process to step down the bit rate and hand off the audio back to the host DAW from the plugin then adding it as a separate process is not going to help
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Well, you kind of have to look at the whole signal chain.

sound source -> A/D (16 bits) -> upconvert (32 bits) -> processing (32 bits) -> D/A (16 bits).

If you so choose to dither, the time to dither would be at the bolded ->. Whether or not it will make a difference to the sound is a different topic, but strictly in theory, that's where you'd dither, even when tracking in 16 bits.
 
bozmillar said:
Well, the bit depth may be 16 bits when you record, but all the processing is taking place at a higher bit depth, so dithering actually would be appropriate here.
Click to expand...

That's assuming processing is or will be taking place...and also that the standalone recorder ( which is what it appears to be) even does internal processing....and if it does, that it's doing it at some higher bit rate. :)

I'm just going with the face value of the OP's question....
...so no, there's no need to dither a 16 bit audio file. ;)
 
The basic rule is to dither when going from a larger wordlength to a smaller one. Only use noise-shaped dither as the last step when going to the final 16 bit master.

You may hear a difference or not, then again some can hear .5 dB differences in EQ and some can't. Do it for the people who can.
 
bozmillar said:
Well, you kind of have to look at the whole signal chain.

sound source -> A/D (16 bits) -> upconvert (32 bits) -> processing (32 bits) -> D/A (16 bits).

If you so choose to dither, the time to dither would be at the bolded ->. Whether or not it will make a difference to the sound is a different topic, but strictly in theory, that's where you'd dither, even when tracking in 16 bits.
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This signal chain is most likely already applying dither for you. Any time a system upconverts a signal and then returns it to its original resolution, it will apply dithering as part of the process.
 
Dithering - what you're doing when you're NOT RECORDING...

get back to work! :cool:
 
chava said:
Don't mean to spoil the party but what's "dithering"?
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Before digital audio came along (for those that can remember back that far ;) )....

..."dithering" was what you did to your girlfriend in the back seat at the drive-in (for those that can even remember back THAT far as to what a drive-in is :D )
 
bozmillar said:
ound source -> A/D (16 bits) -> upconvert (32 bits) -> processing (32 bits) -> D/A (16 bits).
Click to expand...
I don't know whether it's a typo or a misunderstanding, but "D/A (16 bits)" is an incorrect representation of that link of the signal chain. There is no D/A in converting from 32 to 16 bit, it's still all digital. Digital-to-analog conversion doesn't happen until actual playback of the already-saved 16-bit digital file.

I can't positively confirm this, but I gotta assume that if the Fostex does indeed throw the 8 extra zeros on internally before processing, that it's not going to simply truncate the extra 8-bits off before saving the 16-but recording. I suppose it's possible that it might, but I'd think that it's either going to round the LSB or throw it's own dither on it (for better or worse.)

But I do agree that it's all much ado about next to nothing. If your average prosumer engineer is to the point where they're worrying about something so incredibly far down the list of concerns as dither, there's probably at least a dozen other *far* more important things further up the list that they should be spending their time on instead.

G.

P.S. @ George: Its Christmastime, baby! Even Scrooge wound up giving Cratchet the day off ;) :D
 
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miroslav said:
So then is the goose on its way over, Ebenezer? ;)
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Hey, your sex life is your own business! :eek:.

I prefer to think of myself more as Scrooge McDuck, actually. Until I look at my bank statement, that is... :(

Happy holidays to you guys, and to everyone here! :)

xmas_sside_09.jpg


G.
 
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