I need some career advice

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punkstjimmy

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I am 20 years old, I have been recording my own projects and my bands projects at home now for a few years. I don't have enough space or own enough equipment to start calling my bedroom a studio but I would love to work in a studio for a living.

Obviously the set up costs including finding a building and buying all the equipment I will need are huge. Has anyone else been in a similar situation (going from home recording to recording for a living) and how did you make the transition?

I have been trying to find a job working as an engineer in a local studio but the positions are very limited as most of them are one man studios and I have no experience outside of working with DAW's.

Also, I have looked into audio technology courses but I feel that I would learn much faster if I was actually doing it rather than studying it.

I appreciate any help or suggestions you can offer.

Jamie
 
Hi and welcome to the site.

Probably not what you want to hear, but go to college and get a degree in something that will pay the bills. Seriously.

Your own search has shown that finding the recording job is not easy. That's because studios are closing doors. There are opportunities in project studios. Those are one-man-does-all studios; from business manager to artist to recording engineer to promoter. They'll get jobs like radio jingles, video background music, etc. My neighbor does sound fonts for companies who write iPhone apps. It paid the bills for him when he was out of work. Now it's extra cash in his pocket.

I'm no expert, but I'd say trying to start a new studio and pulling in steady work would be difficult. This has been asked here before and others with more insight have expressed the same sentiment.

Try it as a hobby and if it works out, turn it into a fulltime business. But have an escape route... A college degree that will get you a job!!!
 
amen


its a vocation that can turn into a career and should be treated as such....get your edumacation first...get a job that pays the bills and do this in your free time..

No reason why you cant do night classes in music after work...most colleges offer this..I did my masters like this, it'sa bit of extra work but worth it in the end

plus even if you do get a job in music during down times you'll always have something to fall back on..I trained as a chef when I was about 20 and have used that qualification so many times when things were tight, people always eat, no matter what the economic situation is, and it paid well generally
 
Great career choice...

go to college and get a degree in something that will pay the bills. Seriously.

Yes. +1

think of it this way... (which is what happened ot me in my small town back home...)

Lets role play...you are an artist on the other side of the glass with a mic in his face...

you want to PAY someone to record you....

option a: a guy with only experience under his belt. Stemming mostly from his bedrooms acoustics or head phones...

option b: a guy who spent 2+ years learning the fundmentals of sound and how to capture and manipultae it with the assitance of modern technology. And has an 81/2 x 11 parchment that says so...


NOt knocking any of us bedroom/basment/garage enthusiasts, i mean we obviously do it out of passion and lack of funds ot go spend on option b?????

But for those that consider their music art, and all there efforts go into that opposed to every aspect of a song from concept to media.... if you get what im saying...

Will almost always goto option b:

Why?

Casue he knows a fuck load more about capturing sound then me, the guy who learned to mix on his headphones...

The other thing about schooling is chances are youll get a better understanding of what makes a peice a hardware better thne the next and sometimes bigger isn't always better? Which will save you in set up costs.

I do have a friend back home who discovered this. and saved alot of money in the end by being able to figure out what stuff was just a cash grab piece of technology and what wasn't.

I think if this is a serious career choice for you treat it as such and don't sell yourself short, do yourself a favor and invest in the knowledge before you invest in accumulating 'things'



Clear as mud?

:cool:
 
+1 to all the above.

The day of going out and establishing a new studio are just about gone. 20 years ago, you could still get away with it, maybe, in the right market.
I did this in the early 90's. As a strictly home recorder, I somehow managed to put together a pile of dough and build and open a studio. I put together a 24 track, multi room commercial studio in a market that would just barely support it. It was then I learned just how much I didn't know about recording and engineering and trust me, that's a shitty time to figure that out.:o
 
+1 to all the above.

The day of going out and establishing a new studio are just about gone. 20 years ago, you could still get away with it, maybe, in the right market.
I did this in the early 90's. As a strictly home recorder, I somehow managed to put together a pile of dough and build and open a studio. I put together a 24 track, multi room commercial studio in a market that would just barely support it. It was then I learned just how much I didn't know about recording and engineering and trust me, that's a shitty time to figure that out.:o

amen.....

I tried a 'mobile unit'!

i know it sounds crazy, but i thought if i marketed my skills as a 'mobile serivce' it would work in the smallish area i was in. And it did.. sorta... HA! I couldnt pay the bills off what i was making at all, and what it boiled down to in the end

i realized thats just how little i knew about sound... i still have barely scratched the surface. But at least i now know its not something you throw in the back of the Ford Aerostar to take to a clients environment. HAHA

at least i tried lol.
 
amen.....

I tried a 'mobile unit'!

i know it sounds crazy, but i thought if i marketed my skills as a 'mobile serivce' it would work in the smallish area i was in. And it did.. sorta... HA! I couldnt pay the bills off what i was making at all, and what it boiled down to in the end

i realized thats just how little i knew about sound... i still have barely scratched the surface. But at least i now know its not something you throw in the back of the Ford Aerostar to take to a clients environment. HAHA

at least i tried lol.

Aerostar? Hell, even the worst engineer knows not to use an Aerostar! The accoustics are just horrible. :D
 
Hahaah well this is pretty depressing. I am about to turn 17 and was thinking of going to 5 towns for audio engineering. I guess I am in the same boat as the O.P. At least maybe his grades will be good enough to get into a college. My C+ GPA aint getting me nowhere ahahahah
 
I am 20 years old, I have been recording my own projects and my bands projects at home now for a few years. I don't have enough space or own enough equipment to start calling my bedroom a studio but I would love to work in a studio for a living.

The world where someone gets a job working in a studio pretty much no longer exists.

Obviously the set up costs including finding a building and buying all the equipment I will need are huge. Has anyone else been in a similar situation (going from home recording to recording for a living) and how did you make the transition?...

Actually the cost of having a studio has never been cheaper. You can get a laptop, interface and some mics and do remote recording.

Picture a guy is fishing, and after awhile he gets fidgety and starts to think he's in the wrong spot, and that he needs another fishing rod. Sometimes it is those things and sometimes it's just that you haven't been doing it long enough. Maybe there's nothing wrong with the way you've been recording, you just need to keep doing it.

I'd use what I call the "look under every stone method", where you do everything you can think of to learn - schooling, books, asking people who know... do everything you can think of.
 
For a guy who wants to own his own studio (or any business for that matter) a business degree would be a a big help. :)
 
i bet if your creative you could take the knowledge from wherever you get it and make it work. i'd rather not owe $50,000 + in student loans if i could get it elsewhere, and then i'd bend the knowledge to work anyway it can. or maybe even build upon it. which doesn't necessarily mean traditional uses.
 
For a guy who wants to own his own studio (or any business for that matter) a business degree would be a a big help. :)

yup...if its truly going to be something of a career in the future one of these does you plenty of good no matter the trade...its amazing the amount of small to medium enterprises Ive seen fail, not because of the lack of ideas or passion, but because the lack of knowledge required to make a business work
 
For a guy who wants to own his own studio (or any business for that matter) a business degree would be a a big help. :)

i disagree, you can't buy or learn smarts, and business is not the same as the medical field.

if you want to start a business, use your brain to its maximum, go to the library, bookstores, online, talk to real people in business etc. that's all for free!! a business degree won't guarantee you success, but it will gaurantee a big hole in your pocket.
 
i disagree, you can't buy or learn smarts, and business is not the same as the medical field.

if you want to start a business, use your brain to its maximum, go to the library, bookstores, online, talk to real people in business etc. that's all for free!! a business degree won't guarantee you success, but it will gaurantee a big hole in your pocket.

this sounds word for word like something my middle brother said and lives by...

Yet both his sole proprietorship business plans got rejected from all grantees and small business assitance programs for the sole fact he din't even have a 9 month Community College course that was "sort of" (as he puts it) pre-requiste to all applications...

But he
really wanted to start a business, ....went to the library, bookstores, online, and talked to real people in business etc.


SO...

Hes still slugging away in starbucks hoping to god at 30 years old his punk band will get noticed on myspace or at one of his all ages shows he plays...

AHEM at 30.....

9 months and a few thusand dollars could (and still could) have changed the courses of his life. Could have had a solid business, (and i gotta admit they were solid and i feel bad his plans got rejected so much) to support his band and not have to slug away at starbucks...

Depressing....



ANYWAYS. what i came here for was to add to the OP'S original question.


Taking into consideration where you posted this, it must be clear that technology being what it is and how many people do home reocrding, and do it well might i add, some people will goto the basemnt recording friends just becasue. Making it harder for guys that take it serious and do it for job...

You know.. most of the people here have probably recorded a friend or multiple friends or friends of friends...

Which would, essentially be taking money out of the guys pocket who have the real studios educated or not.

The more ammo you got the better off your going to be.



Right?
 
Connections! Connections! Connections!

I'm not one for fancy book lurnin n' stuff but I have to agree with the previous posters. Go to school and learn your craft. An added bonus to going to school, that I don't think anybody has mentioned, is that you meet a lot of people who have just as much passion as you do. These people will become important later on. They may find success while you are still struggling. Assuming you're not an arrogant prick, these folks will remember you when they need a hand. And they may be willing to pay you for your services. Networking is important in this game.

Good luck to you.
 
In this field, school can be worse than worthless

I don't mean school in general, which will hopefully help pay the bills while you piss away money on recording gear, I mean recording schools

Recording schools are for the most part not in the business of teaching the fundamentals of audio. Their primary business is to sell students to advertisers.

The example above is that someone who learned at home on headphones is going to be eclipsed by someone coming out of a recording school. This is exactly backwards. Someone who has gotten their hands dirty learning and tweaking and experimenting all the while will smoke the living hell out of a recording school grad, all else being equal

There are a few recording courses that do pretty well, but theyre still nothing like a substitute for experience.

One of the interesting things is that in this field, a degree from a recording school will actually usually count AGAINST an applicant.

The best method to learn the trade is mentorship, by a giant margin, though most mentoring programs have gone the way of the dodo bird, theres still a few around.

I agree with the rest of the thread though, unless you enjoy starving (for real, not some trustafarian "starving artist" starving), having no way to pay for medical care, living VERY modestly, then a career that pays the bills is a very important thing to have.

If I was your age I'd be scared to get a degree in anything that rests on content creation, intellectual property or any volatile market driven investment.
 
Thanks for all the advice, the people on this forum are real nice!

I understand where the majority of you are coming from, but there are people out there making money in recording. I know this because im in a band and have been to a couple of studios myself. Also think of how many pro's there are out there, the ones recording albums for chart bands etc. They got where they are somehow, and they won't be there forever, eventually other people will take their place. Do you see what im getting at?

Just to let you know I live in the UK, and I am already working full time to pay the bills. I have completed college and have the grades to go to university if I want to, I just don't believe it's the best route. I know a guy doing an audio technology degree and when he comes out he is going to be no better off than me, except he will have a £20,000 debt. I am firmly in the camp that experience rules over a degree, it's just getting the experience which is proving to be difficult.

Anyway like I said, thanks for all the advice. It's given me some things to think about.
 
I understand where the majority of you are coming from, but there are people out there making money in recording. I know this because im in a band and have been to a couple of studios myself. Also think of how many pro's there are out there, the ones recording albums for chart bands etc. They got where they are somehow, and they won't be there forever, eventually other people will take their place. Do you see what im getting at?

You have to understand that times are changing in huge ways right now in this business. This is on top of the fact that people are generally making the same wages ( NOT adjusted to today's dollars) as they were in the 70's

In 1976, 15 dollars an hour for a top rate engineer was GREAT money to do something you loved, today, 15 dollars an hour will not pay the studio rent, or allow for any real gear purchasing. And that 15 an hour is only available at the top end.

Most people are giving away time in the hopes it will lead to paying gigs later

Investment money in bands is gone, the so called "angel money" just doesnt exist anymore, and the one traditional loan source that was available to starting bands is now only promoting from within
 
i disagree, you can't buy or learn smarts, and business is not the same as the medical field.

if you want to start a business, use your brain to its maximum, go to the library, bookstores, online, talk to real people in business etc. that's all for free!! a business degree won't guarantee you success, but it will gaurantee a big hole in your pocket.

Spoken like someone without a business degree :p

There are a lot of stupid business majors (marketing, management, finance, probably economics). Then there are really useful majors (info systems, accounting, production management . . . that's about it). Do you need a business degree to run a business? No, but the fundamentals help you know what you are doing. Go to your local community college and take the intro to accounting class. That's a mandatory minimum.

I do run a business. I also do some accounting for fun. I have a lot of clients, some successful, some not so successful. I have this pizza shop, they make a kickass amount of money that makes me wonder why I don't run a pizza shop (I've done three years working in pizza). But they also signed a lease to finance their equipment that has an effective interest rate of 30%. Do the financing companies tell you that? Of course not. Can you calculate the effective interest rate of a lease? I can. You can too, if you understand the concept and know how to use a financial calculator or the finance functions in Excel (or similar). Do you know the difference between a capital and operating lease, and what the tax implications of the two are? Hmmm. Maybe you don't need to know that, that's the sort of thing you can pay an accountant for (if you bother to consult her before you sign the lease!)

I got another client, they are having trouble keeping their business, so they are bringing in an investor. That's good. What is bad is they are structuring the deal to be 100% taxable, and they have no money to pay the tax (even after the sale). Hmmm. And they want to move so fast we probably won't be able to get them to reconsider.

It's also good to understand how to cost your product (not a simple task for a recording studio). Or how your process flow needs to work. I knew one guy, an engineering type, who decided he wanted to optimize his production process by using *just-in-time* inventory. Problem was he is a very small player with no leverage over his vendors, and JIT works by forcing inventory further up the supply chain (which you know if you study cost accounting or production management). His distributors don't want to carry inventory either, and industry lead times are three months plus. So he ran out of his major product for a couple of months. Solution? Get a loan and buy four months worth of inventory! And include the cost of interest in pricing your product!

Gear . . . gear . . . gear. How many "engineers" (I use the term loosely) do a cost-benefit analysis to buying a new bit of kit? If they did, gear manufacturers would be quite a lot hungrier . . . too many "studios" are thin excuses for unmitigated hobbiest consumption of gear. High-end studios don't have a huge problem with that, because the extra-high-end stuff retains value and the vintage stuff goes up. So mainly they have to cover the cost of their space ($$$), and the interest cost of holding all of that gear. A small studio with prosumer gear that will be near worthless in 10 years has a different equation.

I have clients who have no concept of how to balance a checkbook. So they dump a year's worth of garbage on me to fix and do their tax return. It might take me ten hours to clean up their books, and one hour to do the tax return. That means their bill is 11x as high as it should be. Also, during the year they don't have a good grasp of how much money they are making, or how much tax they will need to pay.

Then I *had* clients who didn't grasp the importance of making their payroll tax deposits on time, and tried to use that money to pay vendors to keep their business going when they hit hard times. When the IRS seizes and freezes your bank accounts, it's pretty hard to stay in business.

Anyway. One accounting class, learn the basics of using Quickbooks and Excel, then go to your local Chamber of Commerce and get some free help with writing your business plan. You will find SBA loans quite a lot easier to get. Or whatever the UK equivalent of all that is.

Back to a business degree: are their dumbass business grads? Of course. But they were dumbasses before they went to college, and seven years of beer-bonging won't change that. If they paid attention, they would realize there is lots of useful stuff to learn.
 

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