Apex 205 vs ACM 3, same mics, kinda?

[gerard]

Hi all, I have 2 ACM -3 mics and they sound pretty good (had to fix the ribbon sag on 1) but.......thinking about getting a Apex 205 also. Question is, are they the same mics?(kinda?). Just want to add a little different "spice" to the mix with a different ribbon but not sure if the ribbon size in both is the same and the mics would sound too much alike. Thanks in advance!

Jerry

 

[darrin_h2000]

Many Chinese mics are rebadged versions of the others...I wouldnt be surprised if they were exactly the same on the inside.

 

[Rust E-Z]

I'm just regurgitating what I read from a post on gearsluts that M Jolly said, but he says that all the chinese ribbons have one of two motors. There is a large one and a small one, the Apex 205 is a model with the large motor and the ACM-3 is a model with the smaller motor. Both are very cool sounding but they are different.

 

[gerard]

Thanks for the replys! I'll check out the Apex.

 

[drBill]

I've got both. Really like the ACM3, but LOVE the 205's. I've got modded 205's though with Lundahls, so I guess that gives them the advantage, but they have a HUGE bottom on drums, muted Tpt, piano, etc. that I really have never found anywhere else.

 

[dgatwood]

I've got both. Really like the ACM3, but LOVE the 205's. I've got modded 205's though with Lundahls, so I guess that gives them the advantage, but they have a HUGE bottom on drums, muted Tpt, piano, etc. that I really have never found anywhere else.

That's in part because the 205 has a long ribbon (2"), while most ACM mics are based on the short ribbon motor (1.77") design. The longer ribbon starts rolling off at a lower frequency, IIRC.

 

[Marik]

That's in part because the 205 has a long ribbon (2"), while most ACM mics are based on the short ribbon motor (1.77") design. The longer ribbon starts rolling off at a lower frequency, IIRC.

There is some misinformation here. First of all, it is hard to call 1.77" ribbon "short". If anything, they are "medium". Historically, the "short" ribbons are about 1" long.
Second, all the Chinese longer ribbons I know of start rolling off at higher frequency, but have worse vertical directivity.

Best, M

 

[drBill]

Long, short, mid, whatever. The modded 205's stand shoulder to shoulder with the best out there. The ACM3's are nice as well, but could use some work I suspect. One of the things on my "to do" list.

 

[dkelley]

There is some misinformation here. First of all, it is hard to call 1.77" ribbon "short". If anything, they are "medium". Historically, the "short" ribbons are about 1" long.
Second, all the Chinese longer ribbons I know of start rolling off at higher frequency, but have worse vertical directivity.

Best, M

yea Marik, I agree about the length description. and of course I agree about the long motor's response, and I'm a huge 205 fan as is well known.

Marik (or anyone), is there a true short ribbon chinese mic in production? and if so, how does it sound?

For me, so far, I quite prefer the long ribbon based models to the 1 3/4" ribbon based models. They actually have better HF response and are more useful overall, in fact dare I say there is a bit of sexy "expensive mic" type of sheen in the high frequencies, at least compared to most other inexpensive mics I've used.

but a 1" model (or 1.25 or whatever) would be interesting... my rca bk5a had a very distinctive tone to it... great for a few things, too wierd on most others (why I finally sold it, I needed more bread and butter mics, fewer specialty mics). It was a short ribbon design if memory serves.

 

[Marik]

yea Marik, I agree about the length description. and of course I agree about the long motor's response, and I'm a huge 205 fan as is well known.

Marik (or anyone), is there a true short ribbon chinese mic in production? and if so, how does it sound?

For me, so far, I quite prefer the long ribbon based models to the 1 3/4" ribbon based models. They actually have better HF response and are more useful overall, in fact dare I say there is a bit of sexy "expensive mic" type of sheen in the high frequencies, at least compared to most other inexpensive mics I've used.

but a 1" model (or 1.25 or whatever) would be interesting... my rca bk5a had a very distinctive tone to it... great for a few things, too wierd on most others (why I finally sold it, I needed more bread and butter mics, fewer specialty mics). It was a short ribbon design if memory serves.

No, Chinese do not make short ribbons at this point. From top of my head the current short models are Beyers and Coles (both 4038 and 4040).

It is important to notice, the "long" Chinese ribbons have better HF response not because of their length, but as a function of shorter path between front and rear. In fact, the shorter path is not along the whole length, but only in the middle, when closer to the ends of the magnets that path actually increases. This helps to increase the sensitivity both, in term of somewhat increasing efficiency of the motor and also, acoustically (but on the other hand, it creates rather complicated acoustical picture in terms of calculating the corner frequency).

On the other hand, the shorter the ribbon, the better directivity in vertical plane they have, and the 1" has off vertical axis as good as any LD condenser microphone--it is just a function of the physical size.

The BK5a is indeed a 1" very specialized microphone. It has better cardioid characteristics than say Varacoustic, or RCA77, but not nearly as good as say Shure 330, or Beyer M360.

As I have already mentioned, I am starting my own company to produce made in US (in my lab) high end ribbon microphones of my own design. One of them will be a short ribbon cardioid model and the prototype is ready.

Best, M

 

[antichef]

I've got an ACM-3 with a Lundahl transformer, and it's pretty much my first choice for electric guitar amplifiers. Changing the transformer made a *big* difference.

We'll all be watching Marik's company closely, of course!

 

[Marik]

Long, short, mid, whatever. The modded 205's stand shoulder to shoulder with the best out there. The ACM3's are nice as well, but could use some work I suspect. One of the things on my "to do" list.

The modded ACM3 is also stands shoulder to shoulder with the very best out there and stands on its own, hands down.

Here is a live recording I made in NYC this October. MS, with modded ACM3 as "M" and my custom ribbon as "S".
Just think of it and pay attention to the instrument balance--live recording of cello and piano made with only two mics:

Best, M