I've come to the conclusion that a studio sound is only found in ... a studio

It doesn't help that he won't listen to occasional advice from professionals who actually know what they're talking about, which is why real industry pros are never in discussions on internet fora, even when they retire or otherwise have time on their hands and want to help young artists. It's like beating your head against the wall, a perfect waste of time. I've known quite a few who have with the best will in the world tried -- and they last about a week before giving up. I know I did. :(

That was interesting...kind of depressing, but interesting.

So, when exactly did you give up? 18 hours ago? I mean, you did just write this...
 
I dont know why pro's would come on a homerecording site...we are obviously a huge let down, unwilling to listen, and will take fifteen lifetimes to record anything near studio standard..

My kits going on craigslist tomorrow..no point in even trying 6 months down the line

Man it must pay as well a neurosurgeon it takes such time and devotion and can only be achieved by the very few
 
I think it's the "unwilling to listen" part that makes the pros leave.
There's been a few (and still are a few) pros that frequent this place and a few others I go to and there are times when I read some new dude is arguing with a dude who's been doing this for like 30 years, I just wanna wring his neck.
:rolleyes:

Ya figure, the old pro dude is givin his time FREELY to a bunch of wannabes (like me ;)) givin advice and invaluable experience and some new clown is flippin shit.

(shakes head slowly)




oh....and I like cheese. :D
 
I think it's the "unwilling to listen" part that makes the pros leave.
There's been a few (and still are a few) pros that frequent this place and a few others I go to and there are times when I read some new dude is arguing with a dude who's been doing this for like 30 years, I just wanna wring his neck.
:rolleyes:

Ya figure, the old pro dude is givin his time FREELY to a bunch of wannabes (like me ;)) givin advice and invaluable experience and some new clown is flippin shit.

(shakes head slowly)




oh....and I like cheese. :D


so you wanna ring my neck dogface? huh? :D


you are right...we should all listen to darrin more
 
I dont know why pro's would come on a homerecording site...we are obviously a huge let down, unwilling to listen, and will take fifteen lifetimes to record anything near studio standard..

My kits going on craigslist tomorrow..no point in even trying 6 months down the line

Man it must pay as well a neurosurgeon it takes such time and devotion and can only be achieved by the very few
Thanks for providing a perfect example.

:rolleyes:
 
I wasn't giving any advice, either.
Meh. No need to be so sour. There are some of us that crave that knowledge. Unfortunately it's been a while that I've read something on this board that I either haven't heard/read before or haven't discovered for myself, LeeRosario's help on my reverb issue notwithstanding.

Personally I am all ears (and eyes).
 
Thanks for providing a perfect example.

:rolleyes:

well geezuz listen to yourself

for starters most here aren't kids in bedrooms with warez plugins looking for the holy grail...

Its not a science..you arent a Phd..it can be learned..fair enough it probably wont compete in quality with the latest number one billboard album in quality...but hey..of course that's what music is all about isn't it :rolleyes:

I've read some of the stuff the pros write here..its helpful, friendly and non condescending...of course there are others that come across as self important blowhards..that really makes me question why would they be on a homerecording site that seems beneath them and such a hassle in the first place?

you decide what camp you're in mate..I couldn't care less if my end product amuses no one but myself...but I try to be courteous to my peers..and I think Ill learn more from the 50 year old musicians in the MP3 clinic than Ill ever from someone stuck believing their own self importance
 
Process v. Outcomes

This is very interesting, but what's the point of it all?

I mean, nobody asked how to record a hit.
Yeah, what is the point? Do you want to record crap no one would ever want to listen to?

That's what I don't understand. When their product is mediocre or worse, why don't they want to get better? :confused:

Why don't they want to focus on the stuff that would give their music a fighting chance to be heard by someone other than their long-suffering girlfriends?

And they really don't. That's what floors me.

We are most of us amateurs here, at various levels of development. That shouldn't stop any of us from recording and enjoying both the process and the product.
You've hit (however obliquely) on the central problem that kills or at least fatally stunts virtually every musician's career, something I call "Seductive Process," which is some interesting (to him) sidetrack from his professional path into which he wanders off and wastes the rest of his career...like obsessing over his guitar tone (in a performing vacuum where it doesn't matter) or sweep-picking nuisance shredding or having the biggest collection of microphones or trying every compression VST in the universe. Look at any music forum -- they're filled with people rabidly obsessing over crap that shouldn't take up 0.02% of anyone's attention.

Sidetracks into seductive process are undemanding and they don't reveal failure of outcome (though in fairness, some few musicians become successful in going pro with the particular seductive process that derailed their musical careers because they find their true calling in it somehow...but these are rare).

If you get sidetracked into the seductive process of finding the "best" overdrive dirtbox, you can for a couple of years delay the realization that you're a lousy musician who writes awful songs and who has no aesthetic sense and can't get along with a band and have a couple dozen other fatal problems that require REAL work and painful personal reassessment to advance as a music act.

And if you don't want to meaningfully advance as an act -- whatever that means to you when you set down and think about your goals -- why don't you sell your gear and drop the charade?

Successful people HATE process.

Process is only the foul muck you have to wade through to get across the swamp to dry ground and home. Process is something you delegate to others if you can (which brings us back to the Division of Labor).

Losers LOVE process because they can escape into it and hide their inadequacies from themselves. They never have to face the fact they failed because they never had any clear outcomes defined in the first place.

When I was doing broadcast playlisting and format development, I (and about six or eight helpers) determined whether a new recording was good enough to go into national heavy rotation, light rotation or into the landfill forever. People who did that were literally the most powerful people in music in terms of generated revenues. My decisions meant millions of dollars -- or zero dollars -- to the record companies, and I was good at my job. How much influence did, oh, kcearl's insights have on the industry? :confused:

In most cases, I can tell you -- instantly -- what's wrong with a finished recording and what's holding it back from being something more people want to listen to. Isn't that the point? If making something that more people would want to hear isn't the point, and apparently it isn't for a lot of process-oriented people, then what is?

If home recording is to live up to its promise, and there's no technical reason why it can't, it will require networking of specialized, competent amateur talent working in concert with each other to match the professional-grade outcomes the big-$ acts have with their army of specialists. The Internet makes this freely possible, and that's the greatest thing in terms of potential -- you don't have to reinvent the wheel every time you take up recording.

But this isn't what I see happening. What I see is the predictable one-man-does-all (badly) situation where the guy has ten cents worth of anything to contribute to music and a million-dollar load of defensive ego, and instead of seeking out those who will work with him to get something done, he gravitates to what are effectively social-networking forums for those just like him to mutually support that awful mindset.

Upon much urging, I sat down and listened to three hours of Reaper Radio in a good listening environment.

During that painful time, I did not hear one song I would ever want to hear again under any circumstances. The engineering was professionally adequate, some performers had some individual talent, but the recordings had awful production and awful material. And yes, I do know the difference.

On their forum, I would have never said that, but when the subject came up, I did say, "There's more to a great record than the absence of gross engineering errors."

Though obviously, blatantly true, it was met with sullen hostility. They didn't want to hear it. They wanted to stay in some circle-jerk about seductive process rather than maximizing their access to willing listeners.

That's why serious pros (who often really do want to help) blow these people off and leave in disgust. Why break your heart over people who are that willfully stupid and doomed? :(
 
When I was doing broadcast playlisting and format development, I (and about six or eight helpers) determined whether a new recording was good enough to go into national heavy rotation, light rotation or into the landfill forever.

Whoa, hold on a second, wait right there... You're the guy who is (or was) putting all the CRAP!!! on the radio??? I can't even stand to turn it on anymore.

I'm not one of these old f*cks who lives in only one decade and everything thereafter is garbage. I love new music, I love to get out and see who is doing what. In fact, I really can't stand classic rock and will never play Freebird again. But everything you hear on the dial anymore is the same old rehashed fomulated spew. Is that you doing that??? If so, you need to smack yourself upside the head and learn what art is.

If that's not you, then forget everything I just said... :o :D
 
When I was doing broadcast playlisting and format development, I (and about six or eight helpers) determined whether a new recording was good enough to go into national heavy rotation, light rotation or into the landfill forever. People who did that were literally the most powerful people in music in terms of generated revenues. My decisions meant millions of dollars -- or zero dollars -- to the record companies, and I was good at my job. How much influence did, oh, kcearl's insights have on the industry? :confused:(
Considering how much unlistenable stuff there is on radio, considering how much "fame" doesn't equate to good music, considering what "most" will listen to is the lowest common denominator, i.e. washed up dilluted crap... and realising that YOU and people like you had and have a hand in that, I can say I DON'T WANT YOUR OPINION!

Personally I don't care what MOST people listen to. I am fine listening to stuff that Shazam doesn't recognize. At least 80% of the stuff that people listen to and buy has the equivalent nutritional value of Cheetos. And out of that, 90% of the stuff that's on the radio is no better than Twinkies.

Around 85% of the population on Earth believes in some sort of deity, which in reality makes them delusional.

Just because a large number of people believe in something doesn't make it true.
Just because a large number of people listen to something doesn't necessarily mean it's "good".

So, yeah... I am all ears when someone like Massenburg or Harvey Gerst says something.

You... I'd say people like YOU are part of the problem with the music industry.
 
Whoa, hold on a second, wait right there... You're the guy who is (or was) putting all the CRAP!!! on the radio??? I can't even stand to turn it on anymore.

I'm not one of these old f*cks who lives in only one decade and everything thereafter is garbage. I love new music, I love to get out and see who is doing what. In fact, I really can't stand classic rock and will never play Freebird again. But everything you hear on the dial anymore is the same old rehashed fomulated spew. Is that you doing that??? If so, you need to smack yourself upside the head and learn what art is.

If that's not you, then forget everything I just said... :o :D


I think one of my favourite albums in the last ten years is Add n to x's "Avant Hard"...now if some pro is going to tell me that needs fifteen lifetimes to recreate I may laugh hard enough for a little pee to escape..


now if they are talking generic rock pap..Im sure it does take years of expertise...which would all be wasted on some of us.... lol
 
utterly speechless..


I dont think thats ever happened before

Well, you said, "utterly speechless..", then you said, "I dont think thats ever happened before". That's two things right there, so you're not utterly speechless... :D

I'll stop now.
 
Whoa, hold on a second, wait right there... You're the guy who is (or was) putting all the CRAP!!! on the radio??? I can't even stand to turn it on anymore.
No.

Music has changed a lot since then, but what I was doing exactly the opposite: I was looking for new music from new (or foreign) acts in a format that would offset the then-terminal corporate doldrums in broadcasting. It worked, then ran its predictable cycle into the dirt in a few years.

Broadcast music is much worse now than it was then for a lot of very wrongheaded and wildly corrupt business reasons that are beyond the scope of this forum.

Still, as bad as it is, you can learn a lot of great value from pop FM radio, if you have a strong stomach and know how to look. A lot of it is appallingly bad on every level, but there are excellent lessons to be fished out from much of it.

LISTEN FOR STUDY PURPOSES, NOT RECREATION.

The problem is that morons won't do it and are smugly self-congratulatory about not being, say, Brittney. As if that matters.
 
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Okayyyy, take back what I said. <dammit> I wanted somebody to kick!!! :D

Music hasn't changed a whole lot. It's just that the good stuff got swept under the carpet because it didn't sell advertising space.

I'm glad for the indie revolution going on. The playing field has been leveled slightly. Downloading has brought back the singles and the small guy can compete against the big names. Of course they aren't going to win, but they will get a bigger piece of the pie than they did before.
 
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