I've come to the conclusion that a studio sound is only found in ... a studio

Truth is, I spent way too many of my days recording, haha. I kind of came out of my shell my senior year in high school. Before that, I would spend everyday writing for a while, then recording till that was done. I was actually getting a bit mad and frustrated when I started getting girlfriends and friends because I did not have those extra hours that I would spend alone where most kids would spend socializing. I've babysat dogs at my cousin's house that was far away and I did not leave the house at all during those five days except to walk the dogs once a day and all I did was record.

I'm just starting to feel that this is a hobby for me when I'm older and I have an "adult salary". My house is on foreclosure and I don't even have an income right now. I wasn't being just cheap, it really was all I could afford.

I found this video on recording heavy metal guitar and it was very helpful.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3176975091479283638#

It just pretty much shows me there is a whole other depth to recording I wasn't aware of. Is recording with mics to an amp and such. I guess there's definitely a reason why everyone here seems to have physical hardware rather than purely just computer interfaces.

Toneport is supposed to replace an entire sound studio. Just looking at the hardware, its really obvious of its intent, but for $100, I guess that can never truly be simulated. Before I even got Toneport, I honestly thought all that stuff I saw TV and movies was just "overdoing" it, but I didn't realize the necessity of it all was.

And now here I am today, realizing that if I want to do what Toneport promises, I have to go get the real things. Not so much a "pro studio" just some real equipment, rather than a simulation of it.

Its sort of how like I didn't really understand the whole tube amp till recently. Toneport and Line 6 amps all sound great and offer lots of crazy variety. But it doesn't come close to beating an authentic mic recording and tube amp.

Truth be told, I might be just being a bit dramatic. I don't know how much all that stuff costs, but I'm sure with a budget of a $1000 I could get myself started manually recording, but thats for another place and time.
 
Well, you've certainly got a lot of great advice, from Miro and Southside particularly.

If I were to add anything, I'd say; Set your goals high, but keep your expectations low. Then as you gain knowledge and experience, slowly raise your expectations and set intermediate challenges for yourself. Eventually, you will reach your goal.

I use a modeler for most of my guitar stuff. The trick with those things is to not use the presets, but spend a lot of time tweaking until you get something you like. They aren't going to sound exactly like any particular amp, but they aren't any one amp. They are just another tool for you to use. And your listeners aren't going to be jammin' on their ipods and say, Oh man, that ain't a real marshall stack!!

welcome to the site and have fun.
 
I have been playing guitar for about about 11 years now, and have been working on teaching my self the recording process just as long. I didn't hit the point to where my friends couldn't tell my recordings from a "studio" recording till about 3, or 4 years ago. Every day since then the improvement I have made in my recording has gotten better exponentially. The reason it has gotten better, is because I don't give up, read every little bit I can find, and watch every video I can. Basically I expose my self to as much knowledge I can, and then try to put it into practice. One piece of advice I can give you is to go here http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/index.php it is a message board pretty much dedicated to direct recording Guitars, and other things recording.

I encourage every one to have the balls to stick it out, and never give up. It can be a tough road to travel, but the pay off is worth it. That is if you are looking at some thing that will be more than a hobby. If you are looking at just a hobby, then still don't give up. Just make sure you keep you priorities in check.
 
we have a saying in the motorcycle fraternity that goes "all the gear but no idea"

always at a track there will be some plonker on a ducati with matching leathers that will be getting trashed by slow novices...best to get to the point where you cant improve with what you've got than to worry about your gear too much...last time out I was trounced by two 125cc race bikes ridden by 16yr old racers who knew what they were doing whilst i was riding on an 1100cc tuned bike..and i at least had some "idea" :)

btw with distortion best advice I ever read/heard was just when you think its perfect and are poised to press the R button...turn it down a notch
 
tikitariki said:
Edit: I uploaded some short samples in another post along with my definition of "studio", it'd probably help a lot to read that post too.

Hey, wow, I wish I knew this place existed two years ago. I'm a high school graduate who is into just about DIY everything, so after writing lots of music, it was only natural that I would want to lay down my own tracks and have them played back to me. My goal and dream was to basically make songs I wish existed; songs perfectly tailored to my own taste and also to bring my own taste to others ears.

I'm a very cheap person. I think I've invested less than $500 in music in my entire life. I still use my first guitar, which I think is very tight in sound, but it could use better pick-ups. There's seldom times where I actually go: Wow, this is garbage. Especially after all the tweaks my guitar buddy taught me. I have a $100 comboamp, $100 Toneport, $50 mic, etc.

Recently, I've been slowly getting more frustrated with recording, even though I'm getting better and better. I wanted a very heavy distorted sound, yet the clarity was just not coming through and the notes weren't distinguishable enough. My first recording was awful, buzzing bass, staticy guitars, now my recordings sound very tight, with many hours spent EQing and working on tone. But it never sounded "alive."

I was thinking of upgrading my guitar, but I read something on this forum, that kind of changed my approach on the whole home recording thing: A home recording is just that. A home recording. I was told I could get studio quality recording with a Toneport, yes, maybe a $100 studio recording (Great clean settings and such though). I think I may have set my expectations too high.

I must admit that my friend and his Macbook + GarageBand + Guitar and me and my Toneport have really exceeded what is to be expected, but I decided to not spend any more money on recording and just drop it till I'm done with school and have a good paying job. I could be spending that money else where, rather than a dream that may require a collective amount of money. Besides, I plan to major in computer/electric engineering, might come on handy in some aspects.

Maybe if I wasn't into such heavily distorted music, quality would not be such an issue, but anyways, do you guys think I made the right move calling it quits for now? I don't mind putting this dream on pause. I'm just getting very tired of bringing the best out of what would be sub-par. Is home recording with a USB device just a dream in today's time?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time out to read this.
Click to expand...

Music isn't your DREAM then. Good thing your going to college. If you won't put enough effort into spending 2 grand for decent equipment I'm going to assume u know your music isn't good enough to be made and sold. I know I sound like an asshole but you simply saying ur too cheap to get the sound you want is your fault and you must not care about music enough so just goto college and stop altogether. Did u even consider doing both at the same time? The people who are the most successful in music are the ones who gave up a lot of other things. I don't even watch TV or I feel like I'm wasting life. I did music all through school and worked 2 jobs. If u love music u could simply get a job maybe..... 2 months ud have a good mic 2 months later you'd have a preamp. I'm insulted by his post.
 
Forgot some stuff!!
1) Like many have said above. Having the distortion at 100% is just not necessary.

2) Yes to have a "studio" sound you need to be in a "studio". But, you can get the same results as a "studio" with a $40 mic pre, and a Sure SM57. Note: I only used the SM57 as an example, there are plenty of other mics that can be used for guitars.

3)Main Entry: stu·dio
Pronunciation: \ˈstü-dē-(ˌ)ō, ˈstyü-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural stu·dios
Etymology: Italian, literally, study, from Latin studium
Date: 1819

1 a : the working place of a painter, sculptor, or photographer b : a place for the study of an art (as dancing, singing, or acting)
2 a : a place where motion pictures are made b : a company that produces motion pictures
3 : a place maintained and equipped for the transmission of radio or television programs
4 : a place where audio recordings are made

Technically, if a guy plays his banjo while taking the browns to the supper bowl that bathroom is also a studio. Point is, that a studio can be anywhere/thing. What really matter's is what you know, and how you apply that knowledge to your craft. That goes for ANYTHING, as some one stated above with a golf analogy.

4) The video you posted a link to. While it has some pretty useful general information. I would be weary of some of what that guy was saying. An expensive tube amp is NOT 100% necessary to make a quality recording. Any decent recording/mixing engineer should be able to get a decent sound with even 100% software, and free software to boot. That guy seems to be kind of an elitist. While there really is no perfect replacement for a nice tube amp mic'ed up with a decent mic going to a good pre, and being laid on tape. Maybe 1% of a bands audience will be into playing music, and recording music seriously. Out of that 1% you have MAYBE 50% who will be able to tell. Of that 50% you will have 1 guy says it sounds like crap because it wasn't a real tube amp.

Here is a link to a test I did with nothing but my guitar, Reaper (DAW Application), and freely availble VST guitar amps. The drum VST wasn't free, but that is not the point.
While it's not a perfect sample, it's still pretty decent, and shows that it's what you know. Not what you buy.
 
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gethypedmusic said:
Music isn't your DREAM then. Good thing your going to college. If you won't put enough effort into spending 2 grand for decent equipment I'm going to assume u know your music isn't good enough to be made and sold. I know I sound like an asshole but you simply saying ur too cheap to get the sound you want is your fault and you must not care about music enough so just goto college and stop altogether. Did u even consider doing both at the same time? The people who are the most successful in music are the ones who gave up a lot of other things. I don't even watch TV or I feel like I'm wasting life. I did music all through school and worked 2 jobs. If u love music u could simply get a job maybe..... 2 months ud have a good mic 2 months later you'd have a preamp. I'm insulted by his post.
Click to expand...

I've already stated its a hobby. And I would fork over 2 grand, but you obviously do not understand my situation.

My house is on foreclosure. Even without paying mortgage, my mom and I still barely get by. The only spending I can afford is groceries. I've been looking for a job since May. I don't have cable. I don't watch TV. So please do not judge my productivity, as I've spent plenty of hours recording, you could at least give constructive criticism like everyone else. It makes me question if you even read my post. I'm actually really insulted by your post. Sorry, if I have priorities. Even if I had a job, I would be a bit wiser than to fork my entire paycheck over to music. I need to pay for an apartment and shit happens, so I need emergency funds. And I take a lot of pride in my music, I'm sorry if I'm not some "get rich and famous" asshole like you. I make music for ME. If music is your dream, I don't know why you care if others will like it. I'm sorry if I'm too smart to even consider recording music to make money when I'm only 18. For Christ's sake, if anyone tries to make music to sell at 18, they probably have the most twisted views on the real world ever. Maybe you had parents that paid for everything and a job could allow you to spend money on whatever, but I don't. In fact, I always had the intention of uploading any album I put out for free. How can you ever call yourself an artist?

Thanks to everyone else for the solid advice. This is pretty much what I do on my free time. My other hobbies got fazed out over time, so I definitely see no con in musical investments. I've been a bit inspired by some of the posts. When I really think about it, moving to manual recording (I don't know if this is the proper term, but essentially recording without my Toneport) would not be too hard. I do have a $50 mic which is pretty decent. I don't have a mic stand though, so I guess thats the next thing on my list. When I move to my apartment, I will definitely start working towards a studio. Definitely pick up some monitors, these speakers don't cut it, as much as I love them.
 
hardwire666 said:
Forgot some stuff!!
1) Like many have said above. Having the distortion at 100% is just not necessary.

2) Yes to have a "studio" sound you need to be in a "studio". But, you can get the same results as a "studio" with a $40 mic pre, and a Sure SM57. Note: I only used the SM57 as an example, there are plenty of other mics that can be used for guitars.

3)Main Entry: stu·dio
Pronunciation: \ˈstü-dē-(ˌ)ō, ˈstyü-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural stu·dios
Etymology: Italian, literally, study, from Latin studium
Date: 1819

1 a : the working place of a painter, sculptor, or photographer b : a place for the study of an art (as dancing, singing, or acting)
2 a : a place where motion pictures are made b : a company that produces motion pictures
3 : a place maintained and equipped for the transmission of radio or television programs
4 : a place where audio recordings are made

Technically, if a guy plays his banjo while taking the browns to the supper bowl that bathroom is also a studio. Point is, that a studio can be anywhere/thing. What really matter's is what you know, and how you apply that knowledge to your craft. That goes for ANYTHING, as some one stated above with a golf analogy.

4) The video you posted a link to. While it has some pretty useful general information. I would be weary of some of what that guy was saying. An expensive tube amp is NOT 100% necessary to make a quality recording. Any decent recording/mixing engineer should be able to get a decent sound with even 100% software, and free software to boot. That guy seems to be kind of an elitist. While there really is no perfect replacement for a nice tube amp mic'ed up with a decent mic going to a good pre, and being laid on tape. Maybe 1% of a bands audience will be into playing music, and recording music seriously. Out of that 1% you have MAYBE 50% who will be able to tell. Of that 50% you will have 1 guy says it sounds like crap because it wasn't a real tube amp.

Here is a link to a test I did with nothing but my guitar, Reaper (DAW Application), and freely availble VST guitar amps. The drum VST wasn't free, but that is not the point.
While it's not a perfect sample, it's still pretty decent, and shows that it's what you know. Not what you buy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on the guy's video. Regarding your test, did you have to use an equalizer for your guitar, or did this come straight from your mic/preamp/etc?
 
That guitar is for the most part 100% natural. The signal chain is

Guitar->mixer->computer->free ampsim vst->ears->enjoy!

That's why I posted it. Yes there is a little EQ'ing in there, but only to lift the high end a tad, and a tad being 1-2db.

Check out the link to the site I mentioned in my first post. Every thing I used in that sample (excluding the Drums, Reaper, and my guitar) can be found there for free. Along with a ton of other useful stuff, and info.
 
Just thought I'd let you know, I really dug your first sample.
I am a big shoegaze fan and that sample really did not seem that far away from being straight up excellent.
I think that what you need right now is a real bass, a real amp and a real drum kit (if you are a musician, it's pretty easy to borrow a friends for the weekend).

Bottom line, I don't know much about recording, but you have some of my props.
 
hardwire666 said:
That guitar is for the most part 100% natural. The signal chain is

Guitar->mixer->computer->free ampsim vst->ears->enjoy!

That's why I posted it. Yes there is a little EQ'ing in there, but only to lift the high end a tad, and a tad being 1-2db.

Check out the link to the site I mentioned in my first post. Every thing I used in that sample (excluding the Drums, Reaper, and my guitar) can be found there for free. Along with a ton of other useful stuff, and info.
Click to expand...

Thanks. See, I'm not even going to post the source of my guitar. Its really bad. Most people EQ for tidy it up, I use it to change my entire sound. That was definitely inspirational. Toneport is just not for me, I need better sound and a mic to my amp sounds like the best way to achieve this.

Abb said:
Just thought I'd let you know, I really dug your first sample.
I am a big shoegaze fan and that sample really did not seem that far away from being straight up excellent.
I think that what you need right now is a real bass, a real amp and a real drum kit (if you are a musician, it's pretty easy to borrow a friends for the weekend).

Bottom line, I don't know much about recording, but you have some of my props.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Its my pride and joy. Its almost done/finalized, but I need to sing and such. Also, I think it needs some touch-ups in a few spots. Yeah, I do not know too many other musicians. I only know one bassist and my girlfriend used to have a bass, but she sold it. I heard cheap basses sound pretty alright. Once I replace my guitar I definitely want to work towards a bass.
 
Toneport isn't all that bad. Actually it's one of the more popular interfaces for guitar players on a budget. What really makes the difference is the amp/cab simulation software. One of the best on the "pay for" side of things is Revalver MKIII. On the Free side of things is NickCrows 8505, or 7170. There are other free ones that people use those are just to start with.
 
hardwire666 said:
Toneport isn't all that bad. Actually it's one of the more popular interfaces for guitar players on a budget. What really makes the difference is the amp/cab simulation software. One of the best on the "pay for" side of things is Revalver MKIII. On the Free side of things is NickCrows 8505, or 7170. There are other free ones that people use those are just to start with.
Click to expand...

+1 for toneport...great little interface


There is tons of decent free stuff out there...best to split it up into different folders in your main VST folder...stuff you're going to use, and stuff you've yet to try out..



for guitar stuff there's a wealth here

http://www.studiodevil.com/download/downloadBVC.htm (excellent)

http://www.acmebargig.com/

http://www.greenmachine.sealandweb.de/Wurr_Audio_Engineering/Download.html (was $90!)

http://www.voxengo.com/press/140/

http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/guitar/guitar-rig-3-le-cm/?page=grlecmoverview ( FREE guitar rig 3 LE..use the code MTGR3 to get serial and download link)


drums

http://www.submersiblemusic.com/TemplateMain.aspx?contentId=65 (fully working Drumcore with 1.3 gigs of samples)

http://www.audiomastermind.com/browse-drums_percussion-5887030-1.html


bass

http://www.synthtopia.com/news/06_05/Free_VST_Bass_Synth.html

http://freemusicsoftware.org/category/free-vst/bass


assorted synths

http://hiphopmakers.com/6-free-synth-vsts

http://www.freesoundeditor.com/VSTSyntheng.htm (includes a version of the excellent broomstick bass)

http://www.progsounds.com/2008/08/31/7-free-software-instruments-that-dont-suck/


effects

http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/download.php (better than many "paid for" Vst's)


here's some mastering plugins (these are also very good)

http://www.gersic.com/plugins/hosted/antress/index.php

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2761.html

http://rekkerd.org/boosty-updates-rescue-to-v11/

http://rekkerd.org/sweetboy-vst/

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=202790&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/downloads/


multiband compressor

http://www.geocities.jp/webmaster_of_sss/vst/index.html#c3


good EQs

http://www.voxengo.com/product/overtonegeq/

http://www.aixcoustic.com/index.php/Electri-Q-posihfopit/30/0/

http://www.geocities.jp/webmaster_of_sss/vst/#sidechgate


general

http://www.meldaproduction.com/freevstplugins/ (excellent quality again)

http://www.camelaudio.com/camelcrusher.php


that should help the budget a little :)
 
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tikitariki said:
My house is on foreclosure. Even without paying mortgage, my mom and I still barely get by. The only spending I can afford is groceries. I've been looking for a job since May. I don't have cable. I don't watch TV. So please do not judge my productivity, as I've spent plenty of hours recording....
Click to expand...

That's a tough deal. :(

Look...you obviously have more critical life issues to tackle first...just don't let the current situation lead you to some global decisions and perspectives about recording. I've seen other guys come to the wrong conclusions about their recording experiences because of financially driven music/audio decisions.

I think what the other poster was trying to say is...don't give up the dream.
We've all had our ups/downs, but if music is really in your soul, it should survive them all…and it will.
 
SuperGeek said:
Does that mean I am regressing I just bought a Ford E-350 and it was a old fire rescue truck :D
Click to expand...
Yep, all the way back to your childhood when you said you wanted to be a fireman when you grew up.

...Good thing you didn't want to be an astronaut. I can hear a frowning Mrs. SG now: "Honey, why is there a Gemini capsule on our front lawn???"

:D

G.
 
miroslav said:
That's a tough deal. :(

Look...you obviously have more critical life issues to tackle first...just don't let the current situation lead you to some global decisions and perspectives about recording. I've seen other guys come to the wrong conclusions about their recording experiences because of financially driven music/audio decisions.

I think what the other poster was trying to say is...don't give up the dream.
We've all had our ups/downs, but if music is really in your soul, it should survive them all…and it will.
Click to expand...

its all about priorities...

thing is music may just be the very escape mechanism to get through tough times...and if there's a positive to come out of this you may get some good songs out of the experience (I know, stretching it here ;) )
 
tikitariki: I like that you said you're cheap. I am too. From what I've read you sound like you have many great qualities.

We could all use a little luck right now.

One time I read that luck is where opportunity meets preparation. So some guy practices sax in his bedroom 12 hours a day for 8 years and then he gets the chance to go on the road with a known band making decent money and everyone says he's lucky.

Well he is, but it isn't just by chance. It's the preparation meeting the opportunity, so that's my point - you can influence it and make it more likely to happen.
 
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