I've come to the conclusion that a studio sound is only found in ... a studio

  • Thread starter Thread starter tikitariki
  • Start date Start date
I think the Aerosmith lyric comes to mind but replace the word "life" for "recording". "Life's a journey not a destination"

It takes a little money (for a high school student that means a lot of money).

Patients and the abitlity to learn.
 
tikitariki said:
Before I even got Toneport, I honestly thought all that stuff I saw TV and movies was just "overdoing" it, but I didn't realize the necessity of it all was.

And now here I am today, realizing that if I want to do what Toneport promises, I have to go get the real things. Not so much a "pro studio" just some real equipment, rather than a simulation of it.
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When you're just getting started, it's easy to succumb to the suspicion that all of the hype surrounding higher-end microphones, preamps, converters, etc. is overblown, because you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to appreciate the true difference. It's like, if you've never tasted red wine before, you're probably not going to appreciate the difference between something nice like Wolf Blass and your neighbor's homebrew. You'll find yourself saying "Why would I spend all that money on a bottle of red wine when I can brew my own and get the exact same thing for $1.50 a bottle?" Well, it's not going to take you very long to figure out that you're not getting anywhere near the exact same thing after all.

I'm writing this message because I can identify with your situation and wariness about "overspending" on gear. I can tell you this: every single time I doubted a contention commonly belabored by an experienced recordist, I eventually learned they were absolutely right, and they were not just ranting about expensive gear and the subtleties of technique just to sound elite or smart.

Good luck
Matt
 
hello tiki, i wouldn't give up if i were you, sometimes patience is frustrating but rewards you later. (lame cliche i know, but sometimes true i sware)

recently i joined the forum ready to throw money at various software & equipment, etc. (money i don't have but if i had it would've) but due to lack of funds my time was spent more learning, now regrets i would've had don't exist because of i'm thinking i hope decreased mistakes

there are so many threads here that help you decrease mistakes with learning & forethought, so having no money is actually helpfull sometimes

anyhow, nice to meet you good luck
 
Apologies in advance for not reading all of the replies. This reply is to the original post.

If you just have some music you want to record my advice is to go to a studio. Learning to home record is a very long, tedious, expensive process, and really should be treated as a love all of its own (which it is for me). If you don't have that, just go to someone who does love it all its own. I knew before I bought my first 4-track that I wanted to do this for the rest of my life, there was no question. If you dont really care, seriously just pay someone else to record you. And don't go to someone's home studio, or to some mediocre place. Go somewhere where you have heard finished products come out of there and they sound good to you. If you can't find a good album made there, don't go there. (my advice) The difference will be between having a finished album next month, or chasing some dragon for years with money you don't have. Don't believe that home recording is cheaper than going to a studio, its simply not. (even with 0% financing)

As for a pro sound at home, hell yes it can be done. I've been doing this for 15 years now, changed setups every 2-3 years, and my most recent setup (only 2 months old now) has gotten me there, no question. It did take 15 years, and thousands of dollars, but who's counting?
 
while I agree that some very nice results can be had in a home situation and I aspire to that myself anfd feel the same frustration, I find I must agree with the original point made by the OP that less than $500 of gear in a bedroom cannot net the same results as a professional studio recording. And to be clear by studio I mean purpose built facility, professionaly treated for acoustics with separate drum, vocal and guitar rooms, hundreds of thousands of pro level level gear. Thousands per channel of mics, pres and ADC. Thousands per channel of DAC and monitoring and a team of experienced, professional engineers

I'm also not surprised that less than $500 of gear in a bedroom can't compete with all of the above, if it could there would be no reason for all of the above to exist :)
 
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Ya. So your broke like I was. I don't have parents Ive been on my own since 16 and Ive been doing music since I was on my own. Im from the literal GHETTO in Chicago. At least you have a fucking mom. My dad died from a brain tumor at 5... My mom gave me up and I was adopted at 6 then I was adopted and left with my REAL grandmother somehow then left and was on my own since 16.

And everyone on earth has bills man... I said SAVE money. You can't find a job!? Try a different approach. I'm sorry if I came off as an asshole but the secret to life is being positive and not worrying and complaining about problems. Telling yourself you can't afford it is the reason you can't. If you stay focused and try to your best ability good things will come to you.

If I had EXTRA equipment I would GIVE it to you! If you knew you would continue on! Just because your so broke. I'm not that much of an asshole.

I did read your whole post I understand your situation. But if you love your music your going to do it! No matter what we think about your situation.... You wouldn't come on here and passively ask us if you should wait till after college to do music. You'd do it now.

Its sounds like Im being an asshole Im just trying to give you that HARD push to tell yourself if you love your music you CAN do it and you CAN do it NOW till LATER and AFTER THAT... Not MAYBE LATER and possibly after that.

Everyone on here is helpful! These are a wonderful group of guys that are happy to give advice. But the MAIN answers to your 5 paragraph post you can answer yourself bro. Don't ever give up. If everyone gave up when shit was hard we wouldn't have 95% of the music we have today... Cures for diseases... or information we live with everyday.

Sorry for being an ass that's not how I'm trying to come off.
 
your not an asshole gethyped, and anyone that doesn't have their head shoved up their ass should be able to see it
(not that anyone here has their head shoved up their ass either, just saying your not an asshole
 
gethypedmusic said:
Ya. So your broke like I was. I don't have parents Ive been on my own since 16 and Ive been doing music since I was on my own. Im from the literal GHETTO in Chicago. At least you have a fucking mom. My dad died from a brain tumor at 5... My mom gave me up and I was adopted at 6 then I was adopted and left with my REAL grandmother somehow then left and was on my own since 16.

And everyone on earth has bills man... I said SAVE money. You can't find a job!? Try a different approach. I'm sorry if I came off as an asshole but the secret to life is being positive and not worrying and complaining about problems. Telling yourself you can't afford it is the reason you can't. If you stay focused and try to your best ability good things will come to you.

If I had EXTRA equipment I would GIVE it to you! If you knew you would continue on! Just because your so broke. I'm not that much of an asshole.

I did read your whole post I understand your situation. But if you love your music your going to do it! No matter what we think about your situation.... You wouldn't come on here and passively ask us if you should wait till after college to do music. You'd do it now.

Its sounds like Im being an asshole Im just trying to give you that HARD push to tell yourself if you love your music you CAN do it and you CAN do it NOW till LATER and AFTER THAT... Not MAYBE LATER and possibly after that.

Everyone on here is helpful! These are a wonderful group of guys that are happy to give advice. But the MAIN answers to your 5 paragraph post you can answer yourself bro. Don't ever give up. If everyone gave up when shit was hard we wouldn't have 95% of the music we have today... Cures for diseases... or information we live with everyday.

Sorry for being an ass that's not how I'm trying to come off.
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I got ya. And I like what you're saying. Keep at it.
 
I wish I made my post a bit shorter, I think people are still replying to the first post, but I've decided to move on. My hobbies pretty much narrowed down to web programming and music writing/recording. I see no harm in having SOMETHING I invest my money in. I don't have a cable bill and I don't really like video games anymore.

One last question though. Would you guys consider digital almost always inferior compared to doing things the manual way with a miking an amp? Toneport can be good and a lot of these posts offer a lot of options and before I go out buying a replacement for my Toneport, I'd just want to hear what you guys have to say.
 
Well good luck with whatever you choose man. Just try your best at it!

And you don't play video games anymore... When I stopped when I was younger that was right when I started getting stuff done! Good first step.
 
tikitariki said:
Would you guys consider digital almost always inferior compared to doing things the manual way with a miking an amp? Toneport can be good and a lot of these posts offer a lot of options and before I go out buying a replacement for my Toneport, I'd just want to hear what you guys have to say.
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If you want to sound like a real amp, there's no substitute for a real amp. Period. *BUT*, that does not in any way mean that you can't get great, quality and even appropriate sound through a device like a Toneport. You just gotta develop that ear that can tell the difference between "real" and "artificial" without automatically adding "good" or "bad" to your judgment based upon that property alone.

If you absolutely *have* to sound exactly like a particular Marshall, get that Marshall and skip the "Marshall" preset setting on the emulator. But that by no means whatsoever means that you can't get a somewhat different tone out of the Toneport, that, while it might not fool a lot of people, will wind up sounding just as good and perhaps even better than "the real thing" in the mix. Just remember though, that you shouldn't settle on the presets, the rest of the knobs on any emulator are there for a reason. Work those knobs and you'd be surprised the quality tones you can port from there.

But, all that said, Tiki, I think there's something far more important you should think about strongly. Many folks will disagree with me on this, but I don't care, I bleed this belief: Tone - and I mean REAL tone that stirs the bones - is in your fingers, not in your gear. [Name any one of your favorite guitarists here] would blow you away with his *sound* and *tone* whether he played on a $3000 PRS or Paul through a Mesa stack, a $99 Harmony through a Pignose, or a Taylor acoustic through the night air around a desert campfire.

Combine that idea with the fact that while this forum is about recording, what we're really all about is the MUSIC and capturing the PERFORMANCE. The MUSIC is why we are even here, and the PERFORMANCE is what makes the music worth capturing for posterity. Anyone who can nail those two will wind up with a recording that practically tracks, mixes and masters itself and will soudn great regardless of what gear you have. It may not quite sound like a Neumann through a Neve and recorded to a Studer but nobody, including you, will care.

Don't worry so much about dialing in tone on your gear, and don't worry so much about a lack of gear. Enjoy yourself, and chase the MUSIC. And the more you chase the MUSIC, the more your performance will follow. And the more you put into your performance, the more the tone will take care of itself. :)

G.
 
tikitariki said:
I must admit that my friend and his Macbook + GarageBand + Guitar and me and my Toneport have really exceeded what is to be expected, but I decided to not spend any more money on recording and just drop it till I'm done with school and have a good paying job. I could be spending that money else where, rather than a dream that may require a collective amount of money. Besides, I plan to major in computer/electric engineering, might come on handy in some aspects.

Maybe if I wasn't into such heavily distorted music, quality would not be such an issue, but anyways, do you guys think I made the right move calling it quits for now? I don't mind putting this dream on pause. I'm just getting very tired of bringing the best out of what would be sub-par. Is home recording with a USB device just a dream in today's time?
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Hmm.

Recording, at home or in a "pro" studio, is an artform that has an extremely long, time consuming learning curve, as I'm sure you've become aware. Money helps, but if someone just walked up and handd you fifty grand in converters, monitors, mics, and pres, while I'm sure your recordings would improve somewhat, it wouldn't be the magical "silver bullet" that would make you go from "home studio" to "pro" sound. The gear is certainly part of the picture, but knowing what to do with it is just as important.

Furthermore, part of a great recording is the physical act of getting it to tape or disc and what's done to it in the mix, but a large (possibly larger) part of it is the music itself - a great tune, a great performance, and a great arrangement. These aspects of a good recording have very little to nothing to do with the gear you use to record, and are all things you can continue to improve working with the gear you have.

So, I think in the short term, you're probably not wrong to give up your dream of making "pro studio sounding" recordings at home with the gear you have. However, that doesn't necessarily mean you can't do it in the long term. It may cost money you don't have today, but you DO have enough equiptment to make recordings, and a lot of the experience you can get now learning to work with the equiptment you have will carry over when you do eventually upgrade, five or ten years down the road.

My advice then is to keep doing it - don't necessarily invest more money just yet, but invest a lot of time - spend some time reading, both at this forum and some of the other great resources on the net, and find ways to make your recordings as good as you can with the gear you have to work on. I'd suggest checking out the mp3 mixing clinic, too - it's a good place to get feedback on your own work, but I criminally under-utilize it as a source of knowledge itself; it's a forum where people post their own recordings for feedback, and they're all too happy to talk about how they EQ'd a certain part, or what they did to make the bass jive so well with the kick drum, etc.

For perspective... I'm 28, and while I've spent way less than a lot of guys here I've probably built up a couple grand in recording gear over the years. However, when I started recording, I was an 18 year old college kid, working with a demo for Sonic Foundry's Acid 2.0. Initially, I didn't even have a mic at first, and used my laptop's built-in microphone before "upgrading" to one of those oldschool computer mics that looked sort of like a whammy bar. My computer couldn't handle recording more than 30 seconds to a minute of audio at a time before it'd start to stutter, so I had to create loops of my guitar playing for rhythm tracks, and record solos in 60 second chunks. By comparison, your setup smoked mine. But, I had a blast - I found some resources on the net, asked some questions, got some answers, and got absolutely hooked on the artform involved in making a recording. I then graduated, got a job, and started to gradually build up a proper "studio." However, by this time I'd logged hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours learning how to dial in and mic an amp, and how to take a bunch of tracks and mix them into something that sounded good to me. I'm not stellar by any means, but I get results I'm not embarrassed by today, and had I just stopped recording in college because the technical limitations were such that I couldn't make a "pro" recording, one I don't know if I'd ever have stuck with it, and two I'd have been years behind where I am now.

Just do it. Keep it fun, don't get too hung up on the results, and learn as much as you can. :)

EDIT - or, just read Glen's post right above mine. :p
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Yep, all the way back to your childhood when you said you wanted to be a fireman when you grew up.

...Good thing you didn't want to be an astronaut. I can hear a frowning Mrs. SG now: "Honey, why is there a Gemini capsule on our front lawn???"

:D

G.
Click to expand...

That's not a Gemini capsule. I'm just happy to see you.
 
Not sure why I'm replying to this thread, other than it sparked a lot of the same feeling I've had over the years...

To the original question, I say this.

Try to stop. If the music is in your soul, it'll come back with a vengeance. If you have a passion about it, you won't be able to stop it. Sounds kind of dramatic, but it's been 100% true through my life.

I, for some reason, was born with music flowing through my veins, but none of my family is musical, so my childhood was sort of musically frustrated.

Since I was 14, I've always had a drumset. I tried to stop playing, sold my set, and told myself I was going to get serious about life. 3 months later, I was at the local music shop buying my next drumkit (and going to college, still getting serious about life)

For those who have a true passion for music (either recording or playing or whatever), it keeps coming back.

Well, I've finally got serious about building my "studio", which now is just a room in my basement, and seeing if I can get my hobby to pay for itself.

Point of this post? If you're a true musician (either hobbyist, or otherwise), you won't be able to get rid of the music in your life, and hopefully, your life will turn out in such a way that you can use the music however you wish.

Keep at it, or don't. If the music is in you, it'll find it's way back.
 
The OP's original premise is 100% spot-on, but for the wrong reasons.

Home recording usually is a bust because of the natural prevalence of the Division of Labor.

The studios are where the pros work, and pros know how to record.

An amateur in a state of the art studio still sounds like a hopeless duffer. A true pro engineer in a home studio still sounds pretty good.

A friend of mine was a second-generation recording industry pro in Hollywood. He was an award-winning music producer for Sony and MGM for over twenty years. He had a little scratch studio in the corner of his bedroom at home for doing quick takes of ideas he got in the middle of the night. He was running a Telecaster through a J-Station to a little mixer and into his DAW. The straight tracks he produced in the corner of his bedroom on consumer hardware were good enough that after minimal clean-up in the corporate studio downtown they would often go into TV series and movies all over the world. Every one else was griping about how amp modelers were junk, blah, blah. His stuff sounded pro.

He knew what he was doing because recording and producing at the top of the entertainment industry were his life.

Objectively, some kid with a reasonably modern hand-me-down computer, a basic interface, bunch of hi-end, industry-standard audio warez and some condenser microphones is technically in a better position to record a hit than most pro studios were a decade or two ago. But...

Many years ago, I used to be a nationally influential guy in the music/broadcast industry in NYC and learned a lot about how it works. To make a charting hit for a new act requires a few hundred specialized professionals from studio acoustic engineers to market publicists doing one thing each -- and they've each prevailed over hundreds of other competitors who didn't do that one thing as well (or at least as convincingly) as they did. For the engineers, the technical learning curve for nearly any of this is near vertical. They've been doing one or two things in the process for ages.

The kid in his bedroom has to re-invent the wheel every day in a hundred ways to do a few dozen different jobs. He has to learn from trial and error and if he had about fifteen lifetimes to learn it all, he might be able to work to pro standards.

It doesn't help that he won't listen to occasional advice from professionals who actually know what they're talking about, which is why real industry pros are never in discussions on internet fora, even when they retire or otherwise have time on their hands and want to help young artists. It's like beating your head against the wall, a perfect waste of time. I've known quite a few who have with the best will in the world tried -- and they last about a week before giving up. I know I did. :(
 
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tikitariki said:
Edit: I uploaded some short samples in another post along with my definition of "studio", it'd probably help a lot to read that post too.

Hey, wow, I wish I knew this place existed two years ago. I'm a high school graduate who is into just about DIY everything, so after writing lots of music, it was only natural that I would want to lay down my own tracks and have them played back to me. My goal and dream was to basically make songs I wish existed; songs perfectly tailored to my own taste and also to bring my own taste to others ears.

I'm a very cheap person. I think I've invested less than $500 in music in my entire life. I still use my first guitar, which I think is very tight in sound, but it could use better pick-ups. There's seldom times where I actually go: Wow, this is garbage. Especially after all the tweaks my guitar buddy taught me. I have a $100 comboamp, $100 Toneport, $50 mic, etc.

Recently, I've been slowly getting more frustrated with recording, even though I'm getting better and better. I wanted a very heavy distorted sound, yet the clarity was just not coming through and the notes weren't distinguishable enough. My first recording was awful, buzzing bass, staticy guitars, now my recordings sound very tight, with many hours spent EQing and working on tone. But it never sounded "alive."

I was thinking of upgrading my guitar, but I read something on this forum, that kind of changed my approach on the whole home recording thing: A home recording is just that. A home recording. I was told I could get studio quality recording with a Toneport, yes, maybe a $100 studio recording (Great clean settings and such though). I think I may have set my expectations too high.

I must admit that my friend and his Macbook + GarageBand + Guitar and me and my Toneport have really exceeded what is to be expected, but I decided to not spend any more money on recording and just drop it till I'm done with school and have a good paying job. I could be spending that money else where, rather than a dream that may require a collective amount of money. Besides, I plan to major in computer/electric engineering, might come on handy in some aspects.

Maybe if I wasn't into such heavily distorted music, quality would not be such an issue, but anyways, do you guys think I made the right move calling it quits for now? I don't mind putting this dream on pause. I'm just getting very tired of bringing the best out of what would be sub-par. Is home recording with a USB device just a dream in today's time?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time out to read this.
Click to expand...


Yes. It is a fact that the studio sound comes from a studio.
 
bongolation said:
It doesn't help that he won't listen to occasional advice from professionals who actually know what they're talking about, which is why real industry pros are never in discussions on internet fora, even when they retire or otherwise have time on their hands and want to help young artists. It's like beating your head against the wall, a perfect waste of time. I've known quite a few who have with the best will in the world tried -- and they last about a week before giving up. I know I did. :(
Click to expand...

And that's just sad that it's like that. Because I know if it wasn't for the experienced people who have worked in the industry, or still do. I wouldn't know how to do 1/100th of the stuff I can do.
 
tikitariki said:
Edit: I uploaded some short samples in another post along with my definition of "studio", it'd probably help a lot to read that post too.

Hey, wow, I wish I knew this place existed two years ago. I'm a high school graduate who is into just about DIY everything, so after writing lots of music, it was only natural that I would want to lay down my own tracks and have them played back to me. My goal and dream was to basically make songs I wish existed; songs perfectly tailored to my own taste and also to bring my own taste to others ears.

I'm a very cheap person. I think I've invested less than $500 in music in my entire life. I still use my first guitar, which I think is very tight in sound, but it could use better pick-ups. There's seldom times where I actually go: Wow, this is garbage. Especially after all the tweaks my guitar buddy taught me. I have a $100 comboamp, $100 Toneport, $50 mic, etc.

Recently, I've been slowly getting more frustrated with recording, even though I'm getting better and better. I wanted a very heavy distorted sound, yet the clarity was just not coming through and the notes weren't distinguishable enough. My first recording was awful, buzzing bass, staticy guitars, now my recordings sound very tight, with many hours spent EQing and working on tone. But it never sounded "alive."

I was thinking of upgrading my guitar, but I read something on this forum, that kind of changed my approach on the whole home recording thing: A home recording is just that. A home recording. I was told I could get studio quality recording with a Toneport, yes, maybe a $100 studio recording (Great clean settings and such though). I think I may have set my expectations too high.

I must admit that my friend and his Macbook + GarageBand + Guitar and me and my Toneport have really exceeded what is to be expected, but I decided to not spend any more money on recording and just drop it till I'm done with school and have a good paying job. I could be spending that money else where, rather than a dream that may require a collective amount of money. Besides, I plan to major in computer/electric engineering, might come on handy in some aspects.

Maybe if I wasn't into such heavily distorted music, quality would not be such an issue, but anyways, do you guys think I made the right move calling it quits for now? I don't mind putting this dream on pause. I'm just getting very tired of bringing the best out of what would be sub-par. Is home recording with a USB device just a dream in today's time?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time out to read this.
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Welcome to HR. You're in the right place.

I'll leave the heavy hitting to the actual engineers on this site, but here's my two cents:

Spend your money now on excellent instruments, and your time on being excellent on those instruments.

That is the wild card in any recording. You can never rise above the performance itself. Worry later about pres and converters. For right now, just focus on being able to produce the sounds you want to record.

A great performance practically records itself.
 
bongolation said:
The OP's original premise is 100% spot-on, but for the wrong reasons.

Home recording usually is a bust because of the natural prevalence of the Division of Labor.

The studios are where the pros work, and pros know how to record.

An amateur in a state of the art studio still sounds like a hopeless duffer. A true pro engineer in a home studio still sounds pretty good.

A friend of mine was a second-generation recording industry pro in Hollywood. He was an award-winning music producer for Sony and MGM for over twenty years. He had a little scratch studio in the corner of his bedroom at home for doing quick takes of ideas he got in the middle of the night. He was running a Telecaster through a J-Station to a little mixer and into his DAW. The straight tracks he produced in the corner of his bedroom on consumer hardware were good enough that after minimal clean-up in the corporate studio downtown they would often go into TV series and movies all over the world. Every one else was griping about how amp modelers were junk, blah, blah. His stuff sounded pro.

He knew what he was doing because recording and producing at the top of the entertainment industry were his life.

Objectively, some kid with a reasonably modern hand-me-down computer, a basic interface, bunch of hi-end, industry-standard audio warez and some condenser microphones is technically in a better position to record a hit than most pro studios were a decade or two ago. But...

Many years ago, I used to be a nationally influential guy in the music/broadcast industry in NYC and learned a lot about how it works. To make a charting hit for a new act requires a few hundred specialized professionals from studio acoustic engineers to market publicists doing one thing each -- and they've each prevailed over hundreds of other competitors who didn't do that one thing as well (or at least as convincingly) as they did. For the engineers, the technical learning curve for nearly any of this is near vertical. They've been doing one or two things in the process for ages.

The kid in his bedroom has to re-invent the wheel every day in a hundred ways to do a few dozen different jobs. He has to learn from trial and error and if he had about fifteen lifetimes to learn it all, he might be able to work to pro standards.

It doesn't help that he won't listen to occasional advice from professionals who actually know what they're talking about, which is why real industry pros are never in discussions on internet fora, even when they retire or otherwise have time on their hands and want to help young artists. It's like beating your head against the wall, a perfect waste of time. I've known quite a few who have with the best will in the world tried -- and they last about a week before giving up. I know I did. :(
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This is very interesting, but what's the point of it all?

I mean, nobody asked how to record a hit.

We are most of us amateurs here, at various levels of development. That shouldn't stop any of us from recording and enjoying both the process and the product.
 
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