Normalizing?

[RAMI]

It certainly won't help with anything, but in and of itself I don't see it doing any actual harm.

OK, I saw that you posted, so I'll just respond to that.


If it doesn't help anything, it hurts the process because it's a waste of time. There's no good reason to do it, so why waste more time. Mixing is time consuming as it is. In that sense it hurts.

So when someone comes in with the (non) fact that there's "a lot of mis-informaton on how bad Normalization is", they're mis-leading people that don't know enough to realize it's a waste of time. Massive and Mixsit pretty much summed it up and I re-iterated it. Then some pseudo know-it-all comes in spewing crap about algorithms and bit-depths. Give me a break.


OK....NOW I'm out.

 

[aviv]

I just see it as a tool that is there. I wouldnt use it on a mixdown but i certainly could see it being used if you wanted to send a track off to a tape deck or if you wanted the max out of a track before goes into any inserts. If you dont know how to use it, leave it be otherwise study it. Nothing harmful will occur at the end of the day everything is backed up and saved so no harm done. Mess about it with it.

 

[iqi616]

In this case, when people use it on individual tracks in a mix before mixing, all they are doing is stealing mix headroom from themselves and they'll just have to turn everything back down again anyway; it's just messing with normal gain structure. In that way it usually should not be used on individual mix tracks.

+++zillions

I can't agree enough with this statement.

Normalizing individual tracks before mixing is a really bad thing to do and just adds a digital generation for no benefit.

Same as tracking too hot, the faders end up way down low where they have the least-fine adjustment of the signal level and thus make the job of mixing harder and less precise.

 

[rayc]

I used to peak norm all my songs once they were mixed now I don't do it at all.
I don't need loudest possible anymore just best possible sound/mix/etc for the song.

 

[chazbot]

Aside from the bickering, this was a super helpful read. Thanks all!

 

[Moley1390]

Sorry to drag this thread up again, but i have the strange desire to open myself up to some fire

I've got a cd of tracks that someone else recorded, with spaced stereo mics in a large room (sorry again if you've seen my other thread!). Now the average RMS of this changes quite dramatically, even within songs, so i've been riding the fader to try to get a consistent perceived loudness. Noting that this cd is not very important to me, would an RMS normalizer save me some time here? I don't want to change the dynamic range too much, just bring up the 1-2 min sections that are a good 10dBFS below the rest of the song...
Any advice?

 

[Massive Master]

(Biased, yes. But honest)

Every "RMS Normalizer" I've heard is more or less a "joke" version of an automated compressor (if there were such a thing).

Ears. Start there.

It sounds like simple volume automation would take care of your problem (and be far less damaging to the program material).

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I don't want to change the dynamic range too much, just bring up the 1-2 min sections that are a good 10dBFS below the rest of the song...

The question I need to ask here is why are there sections within the song that are that much lower? Is it a performance mistake (e.g. everybody turns away from the microphones), a technical error in recording, or is it a natural result of the composition and arrangement of the song?

If it's either of the first two, I'd use gain automation (with an occasional manual peak edit, if necessary) to help level out the errors. But do it by ear, and not by numbers; equal numbers does not necessarily translate into equal results to the ear.

If it's the last one - natural song dynamics - which is a quite common and normal phenomenon, I'd tend to leave it mostly alone. Maybe sometimes closing the gap just a little using the above method might be acceptable, but I'd watch it. Quiet parts of songs are usually quiet for a reason.

G.

 

[miroslav]

Destructive editing should be kept to a minimum.

It depends on the DAW.

I use Samplitude...and with their Object-based editing, the original WAV file is never touched. Only at the final "export" will all my changes get applied "destructively" to the file, in one pass.

 

[mixsit]

... I don't want to change the dynamic range too much, just bring up the 1-2 min sections that are a good 10dBFS below the rest of the song...
Any advice?

I've never used one caveat' out of the way...
Given the hit or miss nature of automatic/programed gain control vs your ear riding/mixing and or automating it..?
But really, slap that thing on there. I'd be interested to know and you can share what you find.

 

[.guitar]

I'm done with arguing with an idiot who has never had anything intelligent to say, and who has very often been exposed as not knowing what he's talking about.

I come back here for the first time in forever and see this...

Exposed to not knowing what I'm talking about? Give me one example?

Didn't think so.

(You still doing covers because you're too unoriginal to come up with anything yourself? Or maybe you finally did?)

 

[RAMI]

I come back here for the first time in forever and see this...

Exposed to not knowing what I'm talking about? Give me one example?

Didn't think so.

(You still doing covers because you're too unoriginal to come up with anything yourself? Or maybe you finally did?)

This is the best you can come up with after so many months???

One example???? Hahaha! You've already shown your ignorance all through this thread, Bozo.

And you did it again in this last post. I have no originals???? I have about 100 originals and at least 50 are on my site, like they always have been. I have about 10 originals for every cover I've done. So, once again, you've shown that you like to talk out of your ass without knowing what the hell you're talking about. You're quite good at making a complete fool of yourself, I'm rather impressed by how good you are at it.

 

[.guitar]

This is the best you can come up with after so many months???

One example???? Hahaha! You've already shown your ignorance all through this thread, Bozo.

And you did it again in this last post. I have no originals???? I have about 100 originals and at least 50 are on my site, like they always have been. I have about 10 originals for every cover I've done. So, once again, you've shown that you like to talk out of your ass without knowing what the hell you're talking about. You're quite good at making a complete fool of yourself, I'm rather impressed by how good you are at it.

I think anyone who read through it would agree that you don't know what you're talking about. Especially since you can't point out anything incorrect about anything I said.

I don't either though. I only developed software. And made money doing it. Kinda gives me an upper hand when it comes to anything uh... computer/software related. But you drink beer and stuff, so wtf am I talking about.

And the reason I asked about the covers is I couldn't give enough of a shit to check out your website to see what you recorded. I just remember when I used to come here a lot it was just cover songs.

 

[RAMI]

I think anyone who read through it would agree that you don't know what you're talking about. Especially since you can't point out anything incorrect about anything I said.

I don't either though. I only developed software. And made money doing it. Kinda gives me an upper hand when it comes to anything uh... computer/software related. But you drink beer and stuff, so wtf am I talking about.

And the reason I asked about the covers is I couldn't give enough of a shit to check out your website to see what you recorded. I just remember when I used to come here a lot it was just cover songs.

HAHAHAHAH!!!!! Upper hand. You don't have the upper hand on anything because you're talking out of your ass constantly.......

For example:

But you drink beer and stuff

Dude, you've obviously got me mixed up with someone else here. I don't drink beer, so once again, you're just blathering like an idiot, which is to be expected by now.

And I've posted originals constantly since I've been here, with about 1 cover to every 10 originals. So get your facts straight and make sure you're addressing the right person before you start making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have, because you got the wrong guy again.

(and you didn't "ask" about the covers. You made an idiotic statement stating I only do covers, Bozo.)

so wtf am I talking about.

Well, at least even YOU see what an idiot you're being.
I'd move on if I were you, because you're embarrassing yourself again......badly.

 

[.guitar]

HAHAHAHAH!!!!! Upper hand. You don't have the upper hand on anything because you're talking out of your ass constantly.......

For example:
Dude, you've obviously got me mixed up with someone else here. I don't drink beer, so once again, you're just blathering like an idiot, which is to be expected by now.

And I've posted originals constantly since I've been here, with about 1 cover to every 10 originals. So get your facts straight and make sure you're addressing the right person before you start making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have, because you got the wrong guy again.

(and you didn't "ask" about the covers. You made an idiotic statement stating I only do covers, Bozo.)
Well, at least even YOU see what an idiot you're being.
I'd move on if I were you, because you're embarrassing yourself again......badly.

All I remember seeing is covers and people asking when you were going to put up one of your own songs. But that was a long time ago. It's also completely off-topic and I personally couldn't care less. Just wondering.

Still can't point out one thing I said that was wrong (besides what I said about you. ).

It's okay, though. 6 years writing software does give me a pretty big upper hand.

 

[solo2racr]

OK....I got to set up onto my soapbox here for a sec...

This petty bickering not just in this thread but in may places around the whole forum is a real drag. Rise above it and get on with life.

 

[.guitar]

eh... I agree. Just bothers me a little when someone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

 

[outerspacezoo]

i never normalize my tracks. i use the izotope ozone limiter.

it's a matter of personal choice and preference, but i find (at least in my recordings/case), that by normalizing tracks they sound less powerful. the limiter keeps all the power, and somehow limits the track to the yellow area. izotope ozone is really good at doing this.

 

[RAMI]

All I remember seeing is covers and people asking when you were going to put up one of your own songs. But that was a long time ago. It's also completely off-topic and I personally couldn't care less. Just wondering.

Still can't point out one thing I said that was wrong (besides what I said about you. ).

It's okay, though. 6 years writing software does give me a pretty big upper hand.

I never posted covers to the point where anyone asked me when I would start posting my own music. You have the wrong guy, I guarantee it. I posted about 25 originals before I ever did a cover here. You're probably talking about Greg L, who did a lot of great covers before he started posting great originals. Just another example of you trying to sound like you know what you're talking about and failing miserably. I bet all your "friends" roll their eyes every time you TRY to sound like an expert on something. You're obviously the one in the group that everyone laughs at.

As far as you having the upper-hand because of "writing software", that shows what an ignorant fool you are. You can write all the software you want, it doesn't mean you know how or when to use it in a MUSICAL situation, as you've proven. Just the fact that you think this gives you any upper hand shows what a complete idiot you are.

You're embarrassing yourself every time you type. Give it up already, it's beyond funny at this point.

I'll give you a break and let you have the last word. Knock yourself out, I've got better things to do than point out what a fool you are every time you post, so I won't bother reading it. I'm sure you'll prove to be the same idiot you've already proven to be......over and over again.

Have a good one, Bozo.

 

[Farview]

i never normalize my tracks. i use the izotope ozone limiter.

it's a matter of personal choice and preference, but i find (at least in my recordings/case), that by normalizing tracks they sound less powerful. the limiter keeps all the power, and somehow limits the track to the yellow area. izotope ozone is really good at doing this.

That's because a limiter changes the dynamic range of the tracks and normalizing doesn't.


As for the OP, he needs to just cut the quiet piece of audio, grab the volume handle and turn up just that section to match the rest. Problem solved, dynamics intact.