Ducking and Noise gate (live)

[Carny1122]

Hey guys, I've got a show tomorrow night (first time using my OWN gear in about three months...I've been spoiled for the past few months to be using my buddy's LS9 with a Nexo rig for smaller shows and an M7CL for the bigger ones with an SSL array ) and I'm wondering, because I haven't really payed attention to whether he does this or not, but should I duck my bass to the kick via sidechain or no? I'm gonna be crankin out around 3000-3500 W total power to the system for about 150-200....think it'll make a big difference or just try it and see? I'm also excited because I get to use my new Subkick/Beta 91 combo on the kick!

Also, noise gate my toms in addition to a bit of buss compression...yay or nay?

 

[xstatic]

First off, I couldn't really say what you should or shouldn't do without hearing things first (system, band, room etc....) Also, I assume you meant an SLS array instead of an SSL array? Thats one hell of a rigging setup to make a hanging vertical array of consoles. And I thought Vdosc was expensive

Anyhow, my gut says I would not be ducking the bass to the kick. Personally, if for any reason it needed to be, that is usually the sign of poor tone from either/or drummer or bass player. Or it could just be bad choice of processign at FOH if it needs to be ducked on every kick drum hit. As for gating the toms, this is also a decision that has to be made by hearing things first. Why gate them? Cymbal bleed? Gating will often make this problem much worse. Generally the only reason I gate toms is when other things on stage and on the PA are so loud that the tome shells themselves are making sympathetic vibrations through that are loud enough to be heard in the mix, or to contain sustain on some drums, especially certain kick drums.

On last thing too, I also would not be relying on a yamaha digital mixers compression for buss comping, then again I would rarely comp the drum buss in a PA situation anyhow.

 

[Carny1122]

First off, I couldn't really say what you should or shouldn't do without hearing things first (system, band, room etc....) Also, I assume you meant an SLS array instead of an SSL array? Thats one hell of a rigging setup to make a hanging vertical array of consoles. And I thought Vdosc was expensive

You're right, SLS array...typo! Ha. It's a ridiculous setup. I'm very fortunate to be able to work with it!

Anyway, thanks for the response. The room is a 15' acoustic tile cieling, 65x35 wood floor with a "drum riser" that we built out of plywood, 2x4's, and we stack it on milk crates and staple fabric around the edge the drummers probably wouldn't play on it if they REALLY knew what it was.

The only reason why I was curious about ducking it was because I did it once before with a country rock band and it really helped the kick stand out in the mix, so I was going to try it again (now that I remembered it), but I think you're right. And I buss my kick and snare together w/o buss compression, but I usually buss my toms to another buss and compress those just a bit with a lower threshold and harder knee, I guess around -20 or -25 in the room I use and a 3:1 or 4:1, which was kinda the "drum buss" I was implying (sorry). Thanks for the input, though!

 

[RawDepth]

I don't see the need to duck the bass. If you EQ the kick and bass differently enough they should let each other alone.

I usually go for more mid range on the kick drum for a punchy sound, (push up the 83hz and 5000hz) and then just get the bass to sound richer and less tinny, (maybe push the 110hz and cut the 1000hz.) These are simply starting suggestions as your PA may differ greatly. It depends on how much muscle you have in the low end. If you trim the extreme lows (20-40hz) out of the PA it may sound a little tighter, although slightly less full. Make that call based on any clip lights on your power amps.

 

[Weasel9992]

Anyhow, my gut says I would not be ducking the bass to the kick. Personally, if for any reason it needed to be, that is usually the sign of poor tone from either/or drummer or bass player. Or it could just be bad choice of processign at FOH if it needs to be ducked on every kick drum hit. As for gating the toms, this is also a decision that has to be made by hearing things first. Why gate them? Cymbal bleed? Gating will often make this problem much worse. Generally the only reason I gate toms is when other things on stage and on the PA are so loud that the tome shells themselves are making sympathetic vibrations through that are loud enough to be heard in the mix, or to contain sustain on some drums, especially certain kick drums.

On last thing too, I also would not be relying on a yamaha digital mixers compression for buss comping, then again I would rarely comp the drum buss in a PA situation anyhow.

Spoken like a guy who's done this a few times.

I have always shied away from gating and side-chaining for exactly the reasons above. It's been my experience that they're both usually used to compensate for poor mixing and they both typically cause more problems than they solve. A well-tuned kit, a good player and an experienced FOH guy will solve all of those problems without the application of processing.

Frank