What Am I Doing Wrong??

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SteveCPerrino

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All my final masters are very quiet compared to other CD's, and whenever i try to turn it up that loud, it starts clipping.

What do I do to get it to that volume, am I possibly doing anything wrong?

Thanks!

-Steve
 
SteveCPerrino said:
All my final masters are very quiet compared to other CD's, and whenever i try to turn it up that loud, it starts clipping.

What do I do to get it to that volume, am I possibly doing anything wrong?

Thanks!

-Steve
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Compress the mix, turn it up and then use a limiter/maximiser set to -0.1db to stop it from clipping.
Here's a direct link to a free one(vst plugin) that I like alot:-
http://www.geocities.com/fender686/tls1.1.zip
 
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SteveCPerrino said:
All my final masters are very quiet compared to other CD's, and whenever i try to turn it up that loud, it starts clipping.

What do I do to get it to that volume, am I possibly doing anything wrong?

Thanks!

-Steve
Click to expand...

unless you have a master facility with amazing compressors, you wont get a loud mix that is the same volume as commercial CDs. it just doesn't happen. if you try, you'll only make the tracks sound very squished and unpleasant. mix it till it sounds good. get it as loud as you can with out it clipping or sacrificing the dynamics of the mix... then just turn up the CD player.
 
The main thing is to get the mix how you like it, 100%.

These days people are trying to do everything DIY.

It's almost like saying I should be able to compete in the Indy 500 with out getting experience on the short tracks.

With out the experience, ears and the tools of a seasoned ME, It is very hard to achieve a well balanced master that will compete with today's levels.

In the meantime experiment with what you have. There's no magic bullet, but things that can help you get there are: Full range monitors, great converters, specific analog processing, and ear training.
 
SteveCPerrino said:
All my final masters are very quiet compared to other CD's, and whenever i try to turn it up that loud, it starts clipping.

What do I do to get it to that volume, am I possibly doing anything wrong?

Thanks!

-Steve
Click to expand...
Most likely you are tracking too hot. Try tracking at about -18dbFS in 24bit. Then mix your tracks together to about -6db and export a stereo file. Then import your file, tweak it, add the extra gain using a compressor/limiter or not, dither if you want and export to 16bit. That should get you in the ball park. Keep in mind along the way that less is more :):p
 
NYMorningstar said:
Most likely you are tracking too hot. Try tracking at about -18dbFS in 24bit. Then mix your tracks together to about -6db and export a stereo file. Then import your file, tweak it, add the extra gain using a compressor/limiter or not, dither if you want and export to 16bit. That should get you in the ball park. Keep in mind along the way that less is more :):p
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Yes, definitely.

Take the song you just spent a lot of time recording and mixing and re record it and remix it, only this time at lower levels, and add dither if you want. This will definitely make your master sound better and louder. What? wiggity wiggity wak. Good luck ; ) Just playin...
 
Waltz Mastering said:
Yes, definitely.

Take the song you just spent a lot of time recording and mixing and re record it and remix it, only this time at lower levels, and add dither if you want. This will definitely make your master sound better and louder. What? wiggity wiggity wak. Good luck ; ) Just playin...
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Where did I say re record?:rolleyes:
 
With out the experience, ears and the tools of a seasoned ME, It is very hard to achieve a well balanced master that will compete with today's levels.
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Adding to WM's post - The vast, VAST majority of "home brew" mixes (and even a good portion of projects from full-time professionals) do not have the potential to achieve that sort of playback volume. End of story. It doesn't happen by itself, it *can* happen by accident (many projects have come in recorded by people who didn't know enough to screw everything up - where they actually used their ears and played it really safe - which is exactly what seasoned professionals do). But all recordings are not created equal.

The greatest mastering engineer on the planet in the greatest mastering facility in the world is limited by the mixes he's sent.

SIDENOTE: Let's not confuse "mastering" with "making it loud" while we're on the subject. Although playback volume is achieved during the mastering phase, it's certainly not the point of the process...
 
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NYMorningstar said:
Where did I say re record?:rolleyes:
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I know. I'm just joshin' with you because the op was saying his masters were "very quiet" and you were recommending for him to record and mix at even lower levels which to me was a little ironic, and in my experience recording, and mixing at lower levels does not equate to louder masters. Granted having the head room is nice but as long as a mix does not distort, clip or peak at digital "0" it's all good.; )
 
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Waltz Mastering said:
I know. I'm just joshin' with you because the op was saying his masters were "very quiet" and you were recommending for him to record and mix at even lower levels which to me was a little ironic, and in my experience recording, and mixing at lower levels does not equate to louder masters.
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The irony is the dude asked a specific question and you gave him a song and dance. He asked for volume and you gave him the Indy 500.

I gave him an answer he can work with and get dissed by you.

The irony is evading answering with specifics and alluding to letting a seasoned ME with ears, experience and equipment like yourself do it. This is home recording and we want to learn to do it ourselves.

You rejected my recommending for him to record and mix at even lower levels. You say in your experience recording and mixing at lower levels does not equate to louder masters.

Well then help me with this...If you track the same session twice, one at unity in 16 bit and the other at -18dbFS in 24 bit, which one has the potential to be louder?
 
If you track one session "somewhere around" -3dBFS peaks and the same session with "somewhere around" -18 to -15dBFS peaks, the "normal" volume one (the one that was recorded around -18 to -15dBFS) will generally have more potential for sheer volume when finished. It'll also be cleaner, clearer, more focused, less noisy, less distorted, etc., etc., etc. The tracks themselves will tend to be much more responsive and sensitive to EQ changes, alteration in dynamics, etc.

Headroom is good room. Recording "hot" and turning it down isn't anywhere near the same as recording it "normal" and keeping it there.

THAT ALL SAID - Some rigs will (obviously) handle abuse when tracking better than others. You can push an API preamp much harder than a "Brand B" preamp before it really shows the damage. But why bother?
 
NYMorningstar said:
The irony is the dude asked a specific question and you gave him a song and dance.
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I told Steve the "truth"

The question involved getting competitive levels - mastering a song that was already mixed.

I guess I was just amazed that you could for see that the problem with Steve not being able to get a loud master reverted back to his problems with levels in his mixing and recording stage without hearing the song.

In fact, by reading your previous post I can tell you are an expert on pretty much everything and I apologize, I am definitely out of my league here and in hind site agree that the advice you gave is right on the money. He should be all set.
 
Thank you John for answering my question. You are by far the most helpful and straightforward ME this board has ever experienced.

Ethan, great article!..as usual

As for my buddy Tom W hmmm,
Waltz Mastering said:
I told Steve the "truth" .
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You and your sarcasm is begging to be blasted but seeing it's Sunday I'll just leave you with this: Jesus is the truth! :)
 
Massive Master said:
Headroom is good room. Recording "hot" and turning it down isn't anywhere near the same as recording it "normal" and keeping it there.
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If you don't mind my widening that out just a little, John, what may folks innocently and often forget is that recording level is the product of a long signal chain going all the way back to the performer, it's not necessarily *just* what you have the input faders on your recorder or DAW set to.

With that in mind, recording "hot" - if one is not paying careful attention to the gain structure throughout the whole recording chain - can mean that the heat also comes from hotter-than-optimal levels earlier in the analog part of the chain and/or in the converters, which can result in a higher noise floor, higher analog circuit distortion (not necessarily the good kind), and reduced *clean* dynamic range to begin with.

When you have that stuff coming out the digital side of the converters into your digital recording device or digital mixer, it's too late; bringing down the digital input levels will not have any effect on that, it's already part of the signal. And that stuff makes the ME's job just that much harder when you ask him (or try yourself) to smash the mix flat as a pancake; the mix will "fall apart" faster than one where the gain structure and subsequent recording level have been optimized to deliver the highest quality signal to the mix.

G.
 
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