problem with floating bridge not going to zero point

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Dmeek

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OK, Back in January i took my guitar to "guitar center Concord" to get new pickups installed & while they were at it i said "see if you can get the action better & maybe refine the intonation a bit. I think it may have been off a hair & i record with it so i want it at its best so i`ll put my pride aside & let someone who does this kind of thing for a living see if they can squeeze out anymore performance. Well...after a few weeks it was ready!....or so i thought! The pickups had been replaced fine but the but the intonation was so bad you could not make music with my guitar. My high string open read "D Flat" (as it should)& my High string on the 24th Was almost a "C". So i brought it back (i live about 35min away & have to pay a $4.00 bridge toll on the way back + gas & free time:mad:). One of the managers intonated it & i went home only to find that the bridge would not go back to zero ( it was not like that when i first brought it in but had not got that far before returning it because of the intonation). I sent it back thinking they would replace the screws the bridge sits on(they didn`t,they just cut into them so the bridge would stay better) I told the Manager this does not look like a lasting solution. Longer story short ive been back & forth 5 times & now it looks like it would be my sixth return (i didn`t have my guitar for 7 weeks including my b-day). Sending my guitar back to get worked on by someone who has been wasting my time seems lame & all the tremelo stabilizers ive read about get trashed in user reveiws...any thoughts?
 
Dmeek said:
OK, Back in January i took my guitar to "guitar center Concord" to get new pickups installed & while they were at it i said "see if you can get the action better & maybe refine the intonation a bit. I think it may have been off a hair & i record with it so i want it at its best so i`ll put my pride aside & let someone who does this kind of thing for a living see if they can squeeze out anymore performance. Well...after a few weeks it was ready!....or so i thought! The pickups had been replaced fine but the but the intonation was so bad you could not make music with my guitar. My high string open read "D Flat" (as it should)& my High string on the 24th Was almost a "C". So i brought it back (i live about 35min away & have to pay a $4.00 bridge toll on the way back + gas & free time:mad:). One of the managers intonated it & i went home only to find that the bridge would not go back to zero ( it was not like that when i first brought it in but had not got that far before returning it because of the intonation). I sent it back thinking they would replace the screws the bridge sits on(they didn`t,they just cut into them so the bridge would stay better) I told the Manager this does not look like a lasting solution. Longer story short ive been back & forth 5 times & now it looks like it would be my sixth return (i didn`t have my guitar for 7 weeks including my b-day). Sending my guitar back to get worked on by someone who has been wasting my time seems lame & all the tremelo stabilizers ive read about get trashed in user reveiws...any thoughts?
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Many times this sort of thing doesn't have anything to do with the bridge assembly but is instead friction in the headstock between the strings and/or the string tree(s).
 
ggunn said:
Many times this sort of thing doesn't have anything to do with the bridge assembly but is instead friction in the headstock between the strings and/or the string tree(s).
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I`m not sure what this means...
 
taking it to guitar center to have it worked on was your first mistake.a mom and pop shop will give you way better service on a much more personal level.i do most of my own work setting up my guitars but it's good to take it to an experienced guitar tech sometimes.a lot of this stuff isn't very hard to do. check out this link for some good set-up tutorials www.projectguitar.com
 
Dmeek said:
Well its a floyd rose rip off that came as part of my Ibanez RG7420 7 string.
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Okay. I've got an Ibanez S7420, so maybe I can offer some insight...but you're not gonna like it. First off, I love the hell out of that guitar, but eventually I had to face facts that the trem/floating bridge is absolutely useless on this guitar. Do you really see yourself doing big juicy whammy bombs on stage, knowing full well how long it takes to tune the stupid thing? I ended up blocking the bridge on mine, and I've never looked back. Open up your back plate and throw an extra spring in the back to get the trem to force itself more "bridge-side" and then glue something blockish to the trem itself. (I used some small thin metal plates and just kept adding the right amount until the trem sat level. You won't be able to pull up (you can still dive-bomb if you like), but the bridge will set nice and even, and it will (gasp!) stay in tune. After that, getting your intonation set should be a hell of a lot easier, since the bridge will actually stay put now.
 
Purge said:
Okay. I've got an Ibanez S7420, so maybe I can offer some insight...but you're not gonna like it. First off, I love the hell out of that guitar, but eventually I had to face facts that the trem/floating bridge is absolutely useless on this guitar. Do you really see yourself doing big juicy whammy bombs on stage, knowing full well how long it takes to tune the stupid thing? I ended up blocking the bridge on mine, and I've never looked back. Open up your back plate and throw an extra spring in the back to get the trem to force itself more "bridge-side" and then glue something blockish to the trem itself. (I used some small thin metal plates and just kept adding the right amount until the trem sat level. You won't be able to pull up (you can still dive-bomb if you like), but the bridge will set nice and even, and it will (gasp!) stay in tune. After that, getting your intonation set should be a hell of a lot easier, since the bridge will actually stay put now.
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Agree 100% ,floating bridges should be banned,Hardwood or metal dont matter just block the bloody thing.:)
 
CMunch said:
Agree 100% ,floating bridges should be banned,Hardwood or metal dont matter just block the bloody thing.:)
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Especially on a friggin' 7 string. I swear...tuning that thing almost turned me into a drummer.:D
 
Dmeek said:
I`m not sure what this means...
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What I said: Many times this sort of thing doesn't have anything to do with the bridge assembly but is instead friction in the headstock between the strings and/or the string tree(s).

When you push on the bar to lower the pitch, unless you have a locking nut, the strings must slip through the bridge slots and under the string tree(s) (if you have them) toward the tuning pegs to equalize the tension. When you release the bar, the strings must slip back toward the bridge, again to equalize the tension, but if there is friction in the nut slots and/or string trees(s), the strings don't slide as much as they need to. This will result in one or more of strings (the unwound G is frequently the worst) going sharp.

Some will argue that as long as you have a floating bridge and a non locking nut (or you don't have a roller nut) you can can never get rid of this problem, and to some extent they are right, but there are things you can do to help the situation. First, if you have a brass or plastic nut, get rid of it; it will have too much friction no matter what you do. A graphite or graphite composite nut will work pretty well. Replace metal string trees with graphite ones, too. A bone nut works OK, but I put a little dab of Teflon grease mixed with graphite dust in each string slot on mine. Make sure that the nut slots are cut correctly for the gauge strings you are using; if they are too narrow you will get "nut squeeze" which makes this problem a lot worse.

Lastly, a little tug upward on the bar will snap it back in tune if you've done the above and still have strings going sharp.

I don't agree that floating bridges should be outlawed; I love mine (old Strat), but they do take a bit of attention.

Good luck with yours.
 
ggunn said:
I don't agree that floating bridges should be outlawed; I love mine (old Strat), but they do take a bit of attention.

Good luck with yours.
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Id just tension the springs so the bridge is fixed...then put that bar away in the case.
 
what i've found with my old ibanez v's is i can set the trem up 2 ways.if want to do dive bombs then i have to set up more spring tension to the point that it'll pull back on the strings when released.normally it will then stay pretty well in tune but if it goes slightly out,a quick little push down on the trem will bring it back in tune.if i pull it back it'll go out of tune of course and everything goes sharp.

i'm not much of a divebomber but i like to hit harmonics and pull back on the trem so i set my spring tension on the looser side so that along with the tension of the strings it keeps everything in check.when i pull back on the trem and then release it'll bring it back in tune.it if goes out a slight bit then a quick little pull back usually brings it back in tune.of course if i push down then everything goes flat.

i can dive with it set up this way but i'll have to end up pulling back on my trem to bring it back into tune and that's just not always possible in the middle of a song.i have locking nuts and more than one guitar so this works well for me but i've never been able to have it both ways.you'll never keep every string on a trem set-up 100% in tune.it's just a matter of preference and playing style.
 
DMeek.....You have a Lo-trs trem on that 7420 which means (as already said), it's junk. Those are the bottom of the line trems. 7420's got the Lo-trs, 7620's got the Lo-pro edge trems. I just briefly browsed everyones responses but if they did any sort of carving into your trem posts...they are now junk. Good thing is this, you can do a direct swap with an original floyd rose trem. They will also come with new posts that will screw into your existing anchors....What I would recommend though is this, go to Ibanezrules.com and purchase the anchor post upgrade, should be called the locking anchor studs. These were common in early Ibanez models with the Lo-Pro trems. That will lock your trem posts in place further ensuring stable tuning. That in addition to either an Original Floyd, Gotoh floyd, or Ping floyd ( these are the only three I would consider) will give your RG perfect tuning all the time.....Hope that helps.....Also, to make sure the thing stays in tune, here's a couple of tips....At the locking nut, in the string grooves, smear a bit of chap stick in the grooves...then do the same on the saddles where the strings sits, use a Q-tip to do this of course....for .9's and .10's, you should only have to use 3 springs unless of course you like your trems very stiff feeling. Also, where your saddles pivot, make sure they pivot freely without resistance....if they stick...they can render your fine tuners useless. And really, trems aren't that bad to get tuned up and going. The easy way is one string at a time and make sure the strings are stretched. I can have my lo-pro restrung, tuned and set up perfect in under 20 min....That's with taking all the strings off and starting from scratch....And rule #1...Never take your guitar to a GC for any type of work!!!
 
Thanks everyone for the responses & thanks TMatt142, that's exactly the kind of info i was looking for;)
 
TMatt142 said:
.And rule #1...Never take your guitar to a GC for any type of work!!!
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First you say it's junk then you imply GC has crappy techs. Garbage in = Garbage out. The tech at GC had garbage to work with and shouldn't be blamed for trying to work with something that is guaranteed to fail.
 
yeah, well....Any tech with a brain knows not to file into trem posts! File knife edges....yes.....mess with the integrity of trem posts...Big no no...Besides...what would the result of carving into the trem posts be. What benefit?? That's why you file the knife edges........Plus...Everyone knows the quality of the Lo-trs trems....Somebody there should have told him this...Aren't they suppose to be the all seeing, all knowing about guitars?? Instead, they made a bad situation worse...This of course is purely my opinion....
 
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